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Chaos Lupus

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Raxxess said :
Falcoshin said :
I believe it was actually said that, physically, Nex was very weak and the reason Zaros helped her was so that the other zarytes wouldn't gang up and bully her to death.

Though the Graardor thing is just as new to me as it is to you.

Ah ok I don't care much for Nex. Yea I don't know about Graardor being weak at first plus it would be a much bigger piece of lore if that was true as it goes completely against bandos philosophy.

And doesn't Bilrach say he created Kril?

Have you not read the Glory of General Graardor?

Yes, Bilrach claims that he created him, but he only summoned him to Gielinor.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-May-2014 19:55:57

Raxxess

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Neo Bestia said :
Chaos Lupus said :
K'ril had to rise above all of the other Avernic demons, which isn't an easy task by any means.

Char was nothing but a dancer until she witnessed the enslavement of her people.

Nex was an unintelligent member of a race that was considered a failure by its creator.

Graardor's body guards are goblins, so enough said there.

All of these individuals had their work cut out for them when overcoming the odds.

Actually the Nihil themselves are very powerful (at least with game mechanics

). Zaros gave Nex con*ious making her MORE powerful.

No ones contesting what Char was/wasn't before the enslavement of her people. We're just saying her race isn't weak/average power.

I have to say, maybe Bandos would be an example of @worshipping the strong@ but we're not saying that, we're pointing that despite their background, social class, gender (not precisely race) Sir Owen, Zilyana, Padomenes are given the stations they hold because of their own merits.

I agree I don't see why every point made has to be argued to no end. I just stated that many Saradominists have surpassed their racial/social/ and gender barriers which brings up questions on how saradomin sees equality.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

15-May-2014 19:56:34

Neo Bestia

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Chaos Lupus said :
Raxxess said :
Chaos Lupus said :
Moia was nothing but a weak servant to Lucien. It wasn't until she absorbed the portal magic in Daemonheim and was trained by Zamorak that she came to be as powerful as she is today. She's now as powerful as one of the most powerful living mahjarrat.

Spotting potential in races that are born inherently powerful isn't exactly what I'm going for here.. What separates Sir Owen from the very vulnerable citizens of lumbridge? Nothing really. Saradomin could just have had Sir Owen's use his birth to rally followers but Sir Owen is on the front lines like everyone else. Nex was the only one that would follow Zaros sooo. Moia was also born of a human sorceress so Half Mahjarrat half Sorceress I wouldn't exactly say noticing potential there was something special. Ourgs are still much more powerful than other races.

Plus where are you getting these very humble beginnings of Graardor? And where does it say that Nex was very weak compared to the other nihil? In fact I thought reason Zaros gave a piece of himself into Nex was because she was a prodigy among the rest.

You added more to your post.

The Glory of General Graardor. 'He was only seven or eight-feet tall, smaller than the others in his tribe, and he wasn't able to eat a pig whole. Even then, Graardor found favour with the Big High War God. His tribe would only allow sizable adults to go to war, but the Big High War God gave him the courage to challenge the Tribe Chief to a wrestling match to the death. Graardor won, was able to go to war, and was the new Tribe Chief to boot.

Despite his youth and size, Graardor killed more than any on the battlefield. His tribe mates recall a pile of bodies as big as White Wolf Mountain.'

No one said that Nex was weak.

There's nothing on that that indicates that Graador himself was weak though.

15-May-2014 19:57:05

Chaos Lupus

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@ Neo

A small stature among a race of giants is a major disadvantage. Like I've been saying, the odds were stacked against him. Even if Graardor hadn't been undersized, there would still be a great deal of competition. Rising above the rest of your race (and ourgs at that) is no easy feat.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-May-2014 19:59:23

Neo Bestia

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Chaos Lupus said :
@ Neo

A small stature among a race of giants is a major disadvantage. Like I've been saying, the odds were stacked against him. Even if Graardor hadn't been undersized, there would still be a great deal of competition. Rising above the rest of your race (and ourgs at that) is no easy feat.

The text doesn't suggest him being smaller was such a big detriment to him raising to the top. It could be inferred, but then again I'll stay out of inferences.

Then again, I'll repeat that nowhere does it say that Graador was weak.

And we mustn't forget Ourgs see to be rather strong by nature or survival of the fittest.

15-May-2014 20:04:42 - Last edited on 15-May-2014 20:06:27 by Neo Bestia

Raxxess

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Chaos Lupus said :
@ Neo

A small stature among a race of giants is a major disadvantage. Like I've been saying, the odds were stacked against him. Even if Graardor hadn't been undersized, there would still be a great deal of competition. Rising above the rest of your race (and ourgs at that) is no easy feat.

I read it but it wasn't Bandos that saw that, Graardor proved it among his own people then Bandos saw that he was a strong warrior and wanted him to be his general.

In fact most of your examples seem to be very powerful creatures that rose to the top then the gods picked them out.

Plus your examples bring up an amazing question, even with these so called "weak upbringings" how has the Saradominist faction even survived all of these creatures even if they are weaker than average are x20 stronger than most humans. Where Saradomin pretty much has had a majority human following, he really has struggled against factions that should have crushed him just by default and being born much more superior. But yet Saradomin stands pretty successful. Even the Zarosian empire tried to expand into Saradomin's claims on gielinor and he obviously held them off, he left when he was defeated by Tuska but if he stayed in Gielinor then he obviously had some success.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

15-May-2014 20:06:49 - Last edited on 15-May-2014 20:11:15 by Raxxess

Chaos Lupus

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Neo Bestia said :
Chaos Lupus said :
@ Neo

A small stature among a race of giants is a major disadvantage. Like I've been saying, the odds were stacked against him. Even if Graardor hadn't been undersized, there would still be a great deal of competition. Rising above the rest of your race (and ourgs at that) is no easy feat.

The text doesn't suggest him being smaller was such a big detriment to him raising to the top. It could be inferred, but then again I'll stay out of inferences.

And we mustn't forget Ourgs see to be rather strong by nature or survival of the fittest.

You miss the point. Just as Sir Owen has overcome the competition and now stands among Saradomin's most prominent human warriors, General Graardor has done the same and now stands among the most powerful of his own race. However, he first overcame the disadvantage of his small stature. Sir Owen had no such handicap. The point is that both have had to overcome the odds, which definitely weren't in their favor.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-May-2014 20:11:16

Chaos Lupus

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Raxxess said :
Chaos Lupus said :
@ Neo

A small stature among a race of giants is a major disadvantage. Like I've been saying, the odds were stacked against him. Even if Graardor hadn't been undersized, there would still be a great deal of competition. Rising above the rest of your race (and ourgs at that) is no easy feat.

I read it but it wasn't Bandos that saw that, Graardor proved it among his own people then Bandos saw that he was a strong warrior and wanted him to be his general.

In fact most of your examples seem to be very powerful creatures that rose to the top then the gods picked them out.

Plus your examples bring up an amazing question, even with these so called "weak upbringings" how has the Saradominist faction even survived all of these creatures even if they are weaker than average are x20 stronger than most humans. Where Saradomin pretty much has had a majority human following, he really has struggled against factions that should have crushed him just by default and being born much more superior. But yet Saradomin stands pretty successful. Even the Zarosian empire tried to expand into Saradomin's claims on gielinor and he obviously held them off, he left when he was defeated by Tuska but if he stayed in Gielinor then he obviously had some success.

Bandos saw his potential and encouraged him to challenge the chief of his tribe.

You're still completely missing the point, which I have repeated several times.

Irrelevant. I have never once argued Saradomin's success or the power of his faction as a whole. As a collective group, Saradominists are currently one of the, if not the most powerful faction.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-May-2014 20:15:46

Raxxess

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Chaos Lupus said :

Bandos saw his potential and encouraged him to challenge the chief of his tribe.

You're still completely missing the point, which I have repeated several times.

Irrelevant. I have never once argued Saradomin's success or the power of his faction as a whole. As a collective group, Saradominists are currently one of the, if not the most powerful faction.

First the book isn't written by Graardor, plus Bandos didn't physically tell him to challenge the chief he saw Bandos as an inspiration.

The most powerful when they shouldn't be the majority of them are born of one of the weakest races there are vs mahjarrat, nihil, ourgs, demons. The discussion was more about social/economic/gender and how they didn't seem to affect at all in Saradominist culture. But you brought up these examples of characters that are born of massive power. Nex was created by Zaros himself of anima mundi, Moia is the daughter of Lucien one of the most powerful Mahjarrats and already Mahjarrat are created by the elder gods. Demons born of infernus are massive physically and have extremely powerful properties. And Ourgs well they are massive bulky and giants. 8 feet tall at 7 years old is pretty impressive.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

15-May-2014 20:25:31

Chaos Lupus

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@ Raxxess

The way that it is worded makes it seem like Bandos actually talked to him, or at least intentionally influenced him. Zamorak likely did something similar with Blrach. Of course, there's always room for error, but that's the same with everything.

No, they definitely should be. As a group, humans are arguably the most powerful race on Gielinor. They're numerous, control the majority of its land and resources, and have some of the more advanced technology in Gielinor. Saradomin also has the icyene, prideleaders, and golems, which make up much of his military.

The point is that, just like Sir Owen, these individuals had to overcome the odds. They weren't stacked in their favor. In the majority of those situations the individuals were weak in comparison to others of their race and those around them.

Nothing says how old Graardor was at that point in time.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-May-2014 20:40:31

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