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Power - Apparently, it's Evil

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Lego Miester
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Lego Miester

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I think it's not so much power as being worshipped. If you're constantly surrounded by "yes men" who think your every word is divine edict (because it is) you run the serious risk of getting arrogant and incapable of realizing when you're in the wrong.

It usually takes an epic failure of godly proportions (like Bandos destroying Yu'biusk or Saradomin abandoning Naragun) to pierce that massive ego and slap some sense into them. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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12-Feb-2017 15:23:04 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2017 15:24:03 by Lego Miester

Maiden China

Maiden China

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Thatds said :
stuff about me saying 'evil' you will be allowed to say flawed if you wish, but I think you will realize we're in near-complete agreement, aside from my choice of the word evil
I can understand that you wouldn't use that word, but whether you use it or not, the meaning is the same Carn

13-Feb-2017 00:30:33

Thatds

Thatds

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Maiden China said :
Thatds said :
stuff about me saying 'evil' you will be allowed to say flawed if you wish, but I think you will realize we're in near-complete agreement, aside from my choice of the word evil
I can understand that you wouldn't use that word, but whether you use it or not, the meaning is the same

Ultimately, we are, but essentially, we aren't. People are not evil; they are narcissistic at best. As in, most people wouldn't shoot you just because they were bored. Most wouldn't kill you even if they hated you. They'd punch you, maybe, but murder? No.

If you would provide your definition of 'evil', then maybe I could come into agreement with you.

I get the sense that you're talking down to me, because 'you will be allowed to say flawed if you wish' implies that I am somehow objectively wrong in my assessment, which is incredibly difficult (if not impossible) when talking about the nature of morality.

It also implies that you have any modicum of control over me whatsoever, which is almost certainly false except in the roundabout 'I can make you reply to me' sort of way.
Either get lucky or grind trying.

13-Feb-2017 01:02:49

Maiden China

Maiden China

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oh, I just talk in a weird way :p
I would say 'don't let it bother you' but you'd Thatds said :
get the sense that you're talking down to me

jokes :p

but anyway, an explanation.
most people won't shoot you in the face, yes
but the reason for that is because there's very little gain in doing so and a great deal of inconvenience (what with law enforcement and people not liking you that much)

I have little doubt people would be killing each other 24/7 if there was a fair amount of gain and little inconvenience, and history supports that (for example, the nazis who didn't 'have to' be unkind to their prisoners, they wanted to, or all the people who accused their neighbours of crimes so they could take their stuff after the neighbours were guillotined, and most of the stuff that happens during and after wars)

and where you say 'that's because people are selfish' (which is accurate), I would say 'it's because they're evil'

you take a 'good' person, and you put him in an environment where being good doesn't get him very far and very quickly he won't be 'good' anymore Carn

13-Feb-2017 01:31:48 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2017 01:33:50 by Maiden China

Thatds

Thatds

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Ah. Well, at this point, it's just argumentation over inherent morality; are we good or are we evil?

Based on what you've said, I think we can both agree that this depends entirely on the culture and social norms that we're surrounded with. As most people are in a 'good' culture and social norms, they are good, whereas others (such as the Nazis) were in an evil social order, where treating other humans like dirt and acting like there was one superior race was the norm.

Ultimately, let me say that if we did create a scenario where 'you take a 'good' person, and you put him in an environment where being good doesn't get him very far and very quickly he won't be 'good' anymore', then the end result of his evil would not be because of nature, it would be because of nurture.
Either get lucky or grind trying.

13-Feb-2017 01:48:10 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2017 01:49:02 by Thatds

VILE39

VILE39

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Hguoh said :
It's not that power makes you flawed/bad. When it comes to being flawed, everybody is. All power does is magnify what these flawed beings are capable of, which, in turn, makes their flaws more obvious and any errors more egregious.

Think of it like rain. One drop catches your attention, but it's only a little annoying. A large storm's worth, however, can cause large amounts of flooding and/or mudslides which are clearly deadly. +2 to this. Elegantly sums up my own thoughts on this topic.

To add my own 2 cents on this, even for people with good intentions it is common for them to unintentionally produce harm, due to their own failings and/or other external reasons. Deathless I see, but even immortals will not escape my wrath!

13-Feb-2017 09:04:30

Questcaping
Feb Member 2020

Questcaping

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VILE39 said :
Hguoh said :
It's not that power makes you flawed/bad. When it comes to being flawed, everybody is. All power does is magnify what these flawed beings are capable of, which, in turn, makes their flaws more obvious and any errors more egregious.

Think of it like rain. One drop catches your attention, but it's only a little annoying. A large storm's worth, however, can cause large amounts of flooding and/or mudslides which are clearly deadly. +2 to this. Elegantly sums up my own thoughts on this topic.

To add my own 2 cents on this, even for people with good intentions it is common for them to unintentionally produce harm, due to their own failings and/or other external reasons.

Which is Seren in a crystal nutshell. To an extent, Armadyl too. And with Saradomin -- as debatably "good" as his intentions are, that's certainly what he believes them to be.

When everything you do is magnified a thousandfold by your power, probably best to use it either as little as possible -- or very, very carefully.

No one's immune from mistakes. Godhood just determines the magnitude of the consequences.
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13-Feb-2017 09:25:58

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

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Questcaping said :


When everything you do is magnified a thousandfold by your power, probably best to use it either as little as possible -- or very, very carefully.

No one's immune from mistakes. Godhood just determines the magnitude of the consequences.

This kind of makes me think of the ending to Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn on the Wii.

Basically the goddess Ashunera created people, then they evolved into a coupled different races (humans, and shape-shifters). The humans were racists and killed everyone else, and the Ashunera got upset, and accidentally drowned every continent on the planet, save one.

A bunch of stuff happened after that that's too long to go into, but basically 700-ish years later everyone forgave her after she helped them kill her evil half, and they begged her to remain with them when she said that she was leaving, as they recognized her flaws as human.

13-Feb-2017 17:45:11 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2017 17:46:36 by Summerleaf

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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All social systems are built up to allow people to coexist. They help act as checks and balances, along with mortality and fickle human nature ensuring that nothing is forever. People also change over time and can be swayed to change their outlook.

Power is just a tool.

These supposed gods not only live basically until they are killed, but are very set in their outlook along with a enough power and an innate conviction that they have the right to bend the universe and everything in it to their way of thinking. There are some exceptions but they are basically all addicts chasing their next fix. They lack the social and cultural systems that would have not only guided their development but curb the excesses.

So what in that scenario is evil? That they have too much power? By who's standards? Or the lack of an environment to guide the development and use of such power to start with? The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
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13-Feb-2017 18:08:20

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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This discussion strikes me as a little silly. All the argument lies in the definitions - of good, evil, selfish, flawed, nature, nurture, but there has been little attempt to define any of these explicitly. That would cut to the heart of the matter - otherwise there's no progress being made.

13-Feb-2017 19:18:55

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