RuneScape Forum Archive | Losing and Gaining Power?

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Isn't there a Faq from com? That maybe a Jmod as answered something regarding Zamorak's tier? If not, End game might explain all.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

16-Dec-2016 22:43:04

Dec

2020

Sepulchre

Posts: 3,525 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
They should all be much stronger than Zaros ever was. They absorbed splitting the power between the ten of them. Even if Zamorak gave up all of his power(and I highly doubt that), that's not even worth 1% of the power Mah had. Hell that's probably not even worth 0.1% of an Elder. Honestly, I think he would have lost much more power from the drain than giving it away, and considering how much they all gained, it's pretty irrelevant

The only ones who should be weakened are Seren and Sliske who lost a massive amount due to the drain and got none of it back since they didn't participate. Given that the drain was enough to take nearly all their power, it wouldn't surprise me if Seren was dying. I wouldn't be surprised if, like with the normal Ritual, the closer you are to the Marker, the more power you gain. All the Mahjarrat were roughly an equal distance away in a circle... Zaros was practically leaning against the damn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Zaros ended up taking half for himself, and giving the other half to the rest.
What I'm saying is, you're severely overestimating the power they gained. You make it sound like they should all suddenly be tier 3+ gods, which they aren't.

I agree about Seren, she wasn't connected to the Ritual, and there's the amount of energy it took to kill Mah (even in a weakened state) to consider. Sliske... well, it's Sliske. I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way using the Siphon and/or the Catalyst to either stop or compensate for the energy drain. A

World Guardian

must learn to find

Balance

in themselves.
Only then can they

Control

themselves and forge their own

Fate .

16-Dec-2016 23:03:29

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sepulchre said :
I wouldn't be surprised if, like with the normal Ritual, the closer you are to the Marker, the more power you gain.

As much as I like the idea, unless you wanna make the argument that Enakhra has been the strongest Mahjarrat since ROTM, it doesn't work. That whole thing came from an old postbag and since they never seem to have gone anywhere with it, it's almost certainly non-canon.

Sepulchre said :
What I'm saying is, you're severely overestimating the power they gained. You make it sound like they should all suddenly be tier 3+ gods, which they aren't.

No, they have not ascended. In terms of raw power though, they should be equal to a Tier 2 if not greater. This an Elder God we're talking about. Zaros, at the height of his power in the empire, is still less than an ant compared to Mah.

Sepulchre said :
I agree about Seren, she wasn't connected to the Ritual, and there's the amount of energy it took to kill Mah (even in a weakened state) to consider. Sliske... well, it's Sliske. I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way using the Siphon and/or the Catalyst to either stop or compensate for the energy drain.

I'm not going to write off the possibility of Jagex saying this happened, but if they do it would be a lorefail. Lucien actually used the stone and even he still had to attend the ritual. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Dec-2016 23:28:14

Dec

2020

Sepulchre

Posts: 3,525 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Enakhra would probably be the strongest.. except she was only the closest for a Ritual where the sacrifice was Jhallan.. who grew so weak he couldn't even talk. I'd be willing to bet that just barely gave enough energy to revert them back from their skeletal forms.

Yes, Mah was an Elder God. A very... very very very... VERRRRRRRY weakened Elder God.
This debate has been going on since we first encountered Mah -- and continues, it seems -- even after her death in CoM.
The only way to settle this is to do something I hate; to go outside the lore and characters itself and talk about Jagex. Simply put, Jagex isn't suddenly going to give every Mahjarrat THAT MUCH POWER. The lore behind it will probably be that Mah was really weak, most of the energy the Mahjarrat got was returned energy already drained from them, and that Zaros somehow took most of the power.

Lucien had both the Siphon and the Catalyst, unlike Sliske, he even used the Stone for power. What Lucien did not have is the knowledge this mysterious Master apparently has. Knowledge that we're not even sure Guthix or Armadyl had about the Stone and Staff.. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a trick or two. Lucien attended the Ritual because he THOUGHT he had to... maybe he was wrong? A

World Guardian

must learn to find

Balance

in themselves.
Only then can they

Control

themselves and forge their own

Fate .

16-Dec-2016 23:58:18 - Last edited on 16-Dec-2016 23:59:01 by Sepulchre

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
This an Elder God we're talking about. A crippled, nearly brain-dead Elder that has been in decline for countless thousands of years. Yes, that's still unimaginably powerful, but there's no way the Mahjarrat are equivalent to tier 2 or 3. You're way off, m8. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

17-Dec-2016 00:21:02 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2016 00:21:25 by Raleirosen

Ancient Drew

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Did anyone else think it was messed up that Wen corrupted Mah who was basically a little kid trapped inside an Elder God's body? And if that corruption entered into the power absorbed by the Mahjarrat, how would this affect them? Basically they absorbed power from both the Elder God of potential and parts of one representing inversion. Would they counteract each other in some way? Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

17-Dec-2016 00:55:01

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ancient Drew said :
Did anyone else think it was messed up that Wen corrupted Mah who was basically a little kid trapped inside an Elder God's body? And if that corruption entered into the power absorbed by the Mahjarrat, how would this affect them? Basically they absorbed power from both the Elder God of potential and parts of one representing inversion. Would they counteract each other in some way? Mah was a horrifying eldritch alien creator-destroyer god, not a little kid. As for the Mahjarrat, they would've had Mah's Wen-corrupted energy from the very start; if it hasn't affected them now, it probably won't in the future. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

17-Dec-2016 00:59:34

Ancient Drew

Posts: 5,732 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"The child is full of wonder, imagination and innocence." That was Mah's chronicle, and it comes to show that each role they play (Mah being the child, Jas the matron etc.) gives them different personalities.

"Without her I would not exist, but she is like a child."

"In many ways Mah was both my mother and my child."

This is something I mentioned in a now long gone thread to a theory I made, Mah: The Mother Child.

The reason I mentioned Mah to be a kid is because it's been well established that Zaros isn't malicious, and Seren means well and tends to be a little naive in some people's eyes. Zaros is analytical, which shows the child's curiosity, and Seren empathetic which can be the child's attaching nature. And another thing is that Zaros sees wonder in watching mortals grow, while Seren was taken in by harmony and the potential that can bring.

As for Wen's energy affecting the Mahjarrat, this may have actually caused the drain on their energy to begin with. Mah represents potential, so she and her Children shouldn't have their power drained on her power alone. Inversion of potential would wear them down over time, so although the rituals may be over for now, it is possible that the Mahjarrat's power may actually fluctuate. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

17-Dec-2016 01:10:55

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ancient Drew said :
"The child is full of wonder, imagination and innocence." That was Mah's chronicle, and it comes to show that each role they play (Mah being the child, Jas the matron etc.) gives them different personalities.

"Without her I would not exist, but she is like a child."

"In many ways Mah was both my mother and my child."

This is something I mentioned in a now long gone thread to a theory I made, Mah: The Mother Child.

The reason I mentioned Mah to be a kid is because it's been well established that Zaros isn't malicious, and Seren means well and tends to be a little naive in some people's eyes. Zaros is analytical, which shows the child's curiosity, and Seren empathetic which can be the child's attaching nature. And another thing is that Zaros sees wonder in watching mortals grow, while Seren was taken in by harmony and the potential that can bring.

As for Wen's energy affecting the Mahjarrat, this may have actually caused the drain on their energy to begin with. Mah represents potential, so she and her Children shouldn't have their power drained on her power alone. Inversion of potential would wear them down over time, so although the rituals may be over for now, it is possible that the Mahjarrat's power may actually fluctuate. All of the sources likening Mah to a child are meant to be metaphorical; attempting to legitimately humanize a god-beast like Mah is a fool's errand.

As for Wen causing the power drain, it's possible, but far more likely for it be caused by the lack of anima on Freneskae, forcing Mah to drain the Mahjarrat in turn. That, and I don't think the Elders are that rigidly defined by their assigned attributes (i.e. they're more similar than different). But I'll reserve judgment in the absence of evidence. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

17-Dec-2016 01:21:21

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Raleirosen said :
Hazeel said :
This an Elder God we're talking about. A crippled, nearly brain-dead Elder that has been in decline for countless thousands of years. Yes, that's still unimaginably powerful, but there's no way the Mahjarrat are equivalent to tier 2 or 3. You're way off, m8.

Weakened or not, She's still hundreds of thousands times more powerful than a Tier 2. How do you take in 10% of that and not reach even Tier 2 status?

Sepulchre said :
Enakhra would probably be the strongest.. except she was only the closest for a Ritual where the sacrifice was Jhallan.. who grew so weak he couldn't even talk. I'd be willing to bet that just barely gave enough energy to revert them back from their skeletal forms.

Honestly, I don't think the strength of the Mahjarrat matters at all, otherwise their rituals would be far more infrequent.

Sepulchre said :
Lucien had both the Siphon and the Catalyst, unlike Sliske, he even used the Stone for power. What Lucien did not have is the knowledge this mysterious Master apparently has. Knowledge that we're not even sure Guthix or Armadyl had about the Stone and Staff.. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a trick or two. Lucien attended the Ritual because he THOUGHT he had to... maybe he was wrong?

Unless the "Master" knows about a secret regarding the stone and Mahjarrat rituals, I doubt this is the case. What else could you really do except draw power from the stone and hope it compensates? Not only has Sliske been avoiding this, but Lucien did it all the time and was still skeletal. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

17-Dec-2016 02:52:02

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