RuneScape Forum Archive | Third Age/God Wars Lore

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sliske: Oh, fine, seeing it was such a good question. Yes, I have made use of it... but I am not making continual use of it. We both witnessed how that plays out, courtesy of Lucien. The Stone has more uses than simply transferring power - though we both have used it for such. It can also transfer knowledge! A much smaller transgression in the rage-addled minds of the dragonkin. I believe this to be how Guthix himself used the Stone - for knowledge, not power. Perhaps that is the difference between a 'false user' and a 'stonetoucher'.

That's the first instance we've seen the term "stonetoucher" get used. The quotations suggest this is his term for it. However, I think this also might actually explain our situation. Sliske makes note that he isn't continally using it. Perhaps using it every now any then is fine, but when you keep touching it all the time (Lucien) or sit on it for 4000 years (Saradomin) this pisses the Dragonkin off much more. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Sep-2016 09:05:13 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 09:05:26 by Hazeel

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
That's the first instance we've seen the term "stonetoucher" get used. The quotations suggest this is his term for it.
...

...except False User is also in quotes, and that certainly isn't Sliske's term. And quotation marks generally denote a quotation... so maybe he just picked up "stone toucher" from the Dragonkin.

Anyway, if Sliske's right then perhaps the line between the two really is more blurred than I assume. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

16-Sep-2016 10:30:04

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
That's the first instance we've seen the term "stonetoucher" get used.

Nope. It's used by the Dragonkin in RoTM. I don't see how Sliske could have invented it.

Strisath: Give in to the power of the dragonkin, stonetoucher !

Strisath: This was just a vision of what is to come, stonetoucher - It will begin in Edgeville. Return to reality and await your fate!

EDIT: Some more in the same quest:

Lady Table: Wait, there's a strange note here. Looks very old. Doesn't mean a lot to me, though. I'll read it to you. 'To learn the secrets of the dragonkin, the stonetoucher must first take the collar from my reincarnation. On it is the code to the plane of Kethsi and the key to the puzzle once he gets there.' - Robert the Strong. Hmm, how strange.

(...)

Player: I think maybe I'm the stonetoucher. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

16-Sep-2016 12:58:26 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 13:03:26 by AesirWarrior

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AesirWarrior said :
Hazeel said :
That's the first instance we've seen the term "stonetoucher" get used.

Nope. It's used by the Dragonkin in RoTM. I don't see how Sliske could have invented it.

Strisath: Give in to the power of the dragonkin, stonetoucher !

Strisath: This was just a vision of what is to come, stonetoucher - It will begin in Edgeville. Return to reality and await your fate!

EDIT: Some more in the same quest:

Lady Table: Wait, there's a strange note here. Looks very old. Doesn't mean a lot to me, though. I'll read it to you. 'To learn the secrets of the dragonkin, the stonetoucher must first take the collar from my reincarnation. On it is the code to the plane of Kethsi and the key to the puzzle once he gets there.' - Robert the Strong. Hmm, how strange.

(...)

Player: I think maybe I'm the stonetoucher.

The dragonkin say those lines during our vision of the future. In other words, the actual dragonkin didn't use the term, our vision did. And since we knew the term from Lady Table reading it on the note, so too did our vision.

And Lady Table states the note she is reading from comes from Robert the Strong. This is important because of the Note to you and Note to robert items found on Kethsi during the quest that indicates some time travel shenanigans between himself and the player character (the Note to robert in particular hinting that he learned the term from the letter his future self wrote (a causal loop paradox)).

16-Sep-2016 16:43:57 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 16:46:13 by Hguoh

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

.....So how did Sliske learn the term then...? There is no precedent for them to use the term until now, so the term would have just been invented. Not to mention that now that there are 3 "stonetouchers", this makes the whole thing with Robert inconsistant.

...Also there's no way that was a vision of the future. More like a fever dream. Although that's another inconsistancy because apparently the Dragonkin do want to kill us as well...they wouln't want to kill a stonetoucher. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Sep-2016 16:55:59 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 17:05:44 by Hazeel

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :

The dragonkin say those lines during our vision of the future. In other words, the actual dragonkin didn't use the term, our vision did.

Well... Isn't it implied the Dragonkin gave us the vision in the first place? The idea being that they show us what they'll do to the world, and that Edgeville will be the first place to taste their wrath.

@Hazeel:
- How is the Robert thing inconsitent? Because there's more than one stonetoucher? That's completely irrelevant. Robert knew we'd find it due to time travel, and it's not exactly plausible the note was for anyone else.
- He had a raging mad Dragonkin in a cage. Don't you think he could have picked up on a few words?
- They would want to kill a stonetoucher. Your own quote says:

A much smaller transgression in the rage-addled minds of the dragonkin

Clearly they still care about stonetouchers, just not as much as false users. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

16-Sep-2016 18:25:44

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
.....So how did Sliske learn the term then...? There is no precedent for them to use the term until now, so the term would have just been invented. Not to mention that now that there are 3 "stonetouchers", this makes the whole thing with Robert inconsistant.

Robert's is a case of an informational causal loop. He writes the note for us containing the information to tell to his past self. We give the information to his past self. He then is able to write the note as he now knows the information to put in it.

So, where does this information come from then? As shown above, he only knows because his future self told him, and his future self knows only because he was in the same position in his own past. The information has no origin, it simply exists. As such, it need not be 100% correct or specific. Rather, it only needs to be correct and specific enough to close and perpetuate the loop.

As for how Sliske learned the term, it could honestly just be a coincidence or a bit of predetermination (the information popped into existence on it's own, so it uses the term for what it means before the term is ever made).

Or, since we know Sliske has been watching us since before RotM, he might have just been in the room with us when Lady Table read us the note (making the term itself a result of the causal loop). Sliske just put more time into figuring out what differs a stonetoucher from a false user.

16-Sep-2016 19:05:38

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
...Also there's no way that was a vision of the future. More like a fever dream. Although that's another inconsistancy because apparently the Dragonkin do want to kill us as well...they wouln't want to kill a stonetoucher.

Agree and disagree. Yes, the vision is basically a fever dream. At best, it was induced by Strisath to intimidate us (he is the one who states it is the future). It would have also been an opportune time for him to pick up and use the term as it would still be in our recent memory.

Disagree on the point of the kin not wanting to kill us. The Dactyl generally don't (we're more useful to them alive). The Necrosyrtes having given into the curse definitely want us dead. As Aesir pointed out, it's a smaller transgression, but a transgression nonetheless to be a stonetoucher.

16-Sep-2016 19:08:29

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AesirWarrior said :
Hguoh said :

The dragonkin say those lines during our vision of the future. In other words, the actual dragonkin didn't use the term, our vision did.

Well... Isn't it implied the Dragonkin gave us the vision in the first place? The idea being that they show us what they'll do to the world, and that Edgeville will be the first place to taste their wrath.

That still doesn't really do much for it. The Dragonkin, or at least the Necrosyrtes, had multiple conflicts with Robert the strong, which brings in the potential for them to have gotten the information out of the causal loop via Robert.

Alternatively because the vision was an attack on our psyche, the kin would have had the perfect opportunity to pick up the term and our belief that it to refer to us from our memory. This would also tie the information back to the causal loop as that is how we learned it.

On the bright side, the latter would provide a secondary reason as to why Strisath does not call Sliske a stonetoucher in MPD (it became their term for us and not what we did with the stone).

16-Sep-2016 19:17:08 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 19:17:24 by Hguoh

Mar

2023

Iron Vampire

Posts: 22,674 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
The quotations suggest this is his term for it..

Another example of deeply flawed logic.

Tell me, why would Sliske not know the difference between the terms if HE CREATED THEM?

When's the last time you heard someone go

"I just made a new word!"
"What's it mean?"
"...I don't know"

You saw the power ups using the stone gives you. What it did to V, what it did to Lucian (remember he was considered an extremely weak mahjarrat before. His power wasn't even mostly the staff's doing.). You saw what it did to Zamorak.

Nothing even remotely close to that happened to us. 7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

17-Sep-2016 23:58:24

Forums

Third Age/God Wars Lore