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13-Sep-2016 01:40:32

Mar

2023

Iron Vampire

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Hguoh said :
(though why they died remains a mystery, sinc they should have just gotten stronger when the stone was used).

The Dragonkin don't just get stronger when the stone is used then have that power ebb away, they get permanently stronger when it is used. So how strong they were at the end of RoTM? They were WEAKER than that during the God Wars.

The Dragonkin were NOT strong enough to stand up to the destructive power of a God during the Third Age, hence why none of them went after Guthix, Saradomin, or Zamorak as "False Users" during it. 7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

14-Sep-2016 18:20:36 - Last edited on 14-Sep-2016 18:21:37 by Iron Vampire

Hguoh

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Iron Vampire said :
Hguoh said :
(though why they died remains a mystery, sinc they should have just gotten stronger when the stone was used).

The Dragonkin don't just get stronger when the stone is used then have that power ebb away, they get permanently stronger when it is used.

The Dragonkin were NOT strong enough to stand up to the destructive power of a God during the Third Age, hence why none of them went after Guthix, Saradomin, or Zamorak as "False Users" during it.

Considering Zammy didn't apparently lose much power after the blast (unlike the BoL), it would appear that most of the power came from the stone. If that is true, then it makes the deaths of those dragonkin fairly odd, wouldn't you think (seeing as they were perfectly able to survive the primarily stone powered attacks on Kethsi)?

Of course, this unusual phenomenon could be attributed to the state of the stone when Zamorak used it. As we know, the stone was very unstable at the time, so perhaps this instability is what led to the deaths of the nearby dragonkin as opposed to the blast itself (or maybe it left them vulnerable enough for the blast to be lethal)?

14-Sep-2016 18:29:15

Mar

2023

Iron Vampire

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Hguoh said :
Iron Vampire said :
Hguoh said :
(though why they died remains a mystery, sinc they should have just gotten stronger when the stone was used).

The Dragonkin don't just get stronger when the stone is used then have that power ebb away, they get permanently stronger when it is used.

The Dragonkin were NOT strong enough to stand up to the destructive power of a God during the Third Age, hence why none of them went after Guthix, Saradomin, or Zamorak as "False Users" during it.

Considering Zammy didn't apparently lose much power after the blast (unlike the BoL), it would appear that most of the power came from the stone. If that is true, then it makes the deaths of those dragonkin fairly odd, wouldn't you think (seeing as they were perfectly able to survive the primarily stone powered attacks on Kethsi)?

Of course, this unusual phenomenon could be attributed to the state of the stone when Zamorak used it. As we know, the stone was very unstable at the time, so perhaps this instability is what led to the deaths of the nearby dragonkin as opposed to the blast itself (or maybe it left them vulnerable enough for the blast to be lethal)?

The stone is a catalyst. As powerful as it is it still only amplifies the power of the user. This is why Gods can go up entire levels on the "God Levels" chart when mortals just become more powerful mortals.

Think what use the Stone of Jas would be to an Elder God if it gave them the same power boost that it gave Lucien? That would be a virtually non-existent boost to them. The difference between Kethsi and the Wilderness is that on Kethsi, simple ordinary mortals used it and with the Wilderness, a god used it. 7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

14-Sep-2016 19:33:24

Hguoh

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Iron Vampire said :
The stone is a catalyst. As powerful as it is it still only amplifies the power of the user. This is why Gods can go up entire levels on the "God Levels" chart when mortals just become more powerful mortals.

Think what use the Stone of Jas would be to an Elder God if it gave them the same power boost that it gave Lucien? That would be a virtually non-existent boost to them. The difference between Kethsi and the Wilderness is that on Kethsi, simple ordinary mortals used it and with the Wilderness, a god used it.

Not quite. It's been noted multiple times, all the way back to WGS, that the Stone of Jas can provide its own power and knowledge (though whether it was intended to be used that way is something else entirely). Most recently, Phalaks clarified that the stone is a repository of power and knowledge.

But yeah, if it merely amplified the user/toucher, there'd be no way for us to glean new knowledge from it or learn of events we weren't present for, which we kinda have done.

14-Sep-2016 19:56:46 - Last edited on 14-Sep-2016 19:57:03 by Hguoh

Mar

2023

Iron Vampire

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Hguoh said :
Iron Vampire said :
The stone is a catalyst. As powerful as it is it still only amplifies the power of the user. This is why Gods can go up entire levels on the "God Levels" chart when mortals just become more powerful mortals.

Think what use the Stone of Jas would be to an Elder God if it gave them the same power boost that it gave Lucien? That would be a virtually non-existent boost to them. The difference between Kethsi and the Wilderness is that on Kethsi, simple ordinary mortals used it and with the Wilderness, a god used it.

Not quite. It's been noted multiple times, all the way back to WGS, that the Stone of Jas can provide its own power and knowledge (though whether it was intended to be used that way is something else entirely). Most recently, Phalaks clarified that the stone is a repository of power and knowledge.

But yeah, if it merely amplified the user/toucher, there'd be no way for us to glean new knowledge from it or learn of events we weren't present for, which we kinda have done.

That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users? Yeah there's a reason for that, it isn't just random.

But Zamorak could have killed the dragonkin without the Stone's power, thus even with the Stone's power they can't survive a full-power blast from him. It's as simple as that. 7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

14-Sep-2016 20:00:32

Hazeel

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Iron Vampire said :
That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users?

In WGS, the dragonkin refer to us as giving them power, because we used the stone. Jagex has confirmed that the only reason we didn't appear with the Saradomin and Zamorak during the echo fight is because of limited resources. We permanetly gained a power upgrade (in the form of combat xp) in WGS. We've clearly used it. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

14-Sep-2016 21:49:35

Hguoh

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Again, Phalaks, a Dactyl Dragonkin (the ones dedicated to finding a way to liberate themselves from their bond to the stone), tells the player that the Stone is, at the most basic level, a repository of power and knowledge. In other words, it doesn't just amplify the abilities of those that use it. It gives them some of its own power.

Here's the thing though, as Idria pointed out in WGS and Phalaks points out in HW, mortals and gods can't contain the stone's full power, or at least not without serious consequence. As such, it stands to reason that gods, by the simple virtue of having more divine power, have a greater capacity to both wield and retain their hold onto the power and knowledge granted by the stone than a mortal would.

15-Sep-2016 03:11:22 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2016 03:11:45 by Hguoh

Mar

2023

Iron Vampire

Posts: 22,674 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hazeel said :
Iron Vampire said :
That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users?

In WGS, the dragonkin refer to us as giving them power, because we used the stone. Jagex has confirmed that the only reason we didn't appear with the Saradomin and Zamorak during the echo fight is because of limited resources. We permanetly gained a power upgrade (in the form of combat xp) in WGS. We've clearly used it.

Actually we CAN'T use the stone. World Guardian effects and whatnot.

Now I know what you're wondering, how did we use it in Dishonor Among Thieves? We didn't. We gained knowledge from it and temporally channeled it's power, but we NEVER absorbed its power. The experience gained was just your normal end of quest exp (and large amounts cause it was the first grandmaster). This is why you had the same effect from the SoJ before and after your World Guardian powers even though Jagex has confirmed the World Guardian cannot absorb powers from the Stone.

That's not to say that being a stonetoucher doesn't annoy the Dragonkin. It does, but nowhere near the level of being a False User. There's a reason we're one of the easiest of the people who've touched the stone to kill but the Dragonkin haven't went out of their way to do it yet. 7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

15-Sep-2016 03:20:52 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2016 03:21:19 by Iron Vampire

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Iron Vampire said :
Hazeel said :
Iron Vampire said :
That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users?

In WGS, the dragonkin refer to us as giving them power, because we used the stone. Jagex has confirmed that the only reason we didn't appear with the Saradomin and Zamorak during the echo fight is because of limited resources. We permanetly gained a power upgrade (in the form of combat xp) in WGS. We've clearly used it.

Actually we CAN'T use the stone. World Guardian effects and whatnot.

Now I know what you're wondering, how did we use it in Dishonor Among Thieves? We didn't. We gained knowledge from it and temporally channeled it's power, but we NEVER absorbed its power. The experience gained was just your normal end of quest exp (and large amounts cause it was the first grandmaster). This is why you had the same effect from the SoJ before and after your World Guardian powers even though Jagex has confirmed the World Guardian cannot absorb powers from the Stone.

That's not to say that being a stonetoucher doesn't annoy the Dragonkin. It does, but nowhere near the level of being a False User. There's a reason we're one of the easiest of the people who've touched the stone to kill but the Dragonkin haven't went out of their way to do it yet.

... but WGS occurs before we became the World Guardian.

15-Sep-2016 04:09:58 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2016 04:15:26 by Hguoh

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