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Hazeel

Hazeel

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Hguoh said :
Iron Vampire said :
Hazeel said :
Iron Vampire said :
That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users?


In WGS, the dragonkin refer to us as giving them power, because we used the stone. Jagex has confirmed that the only reason we didn't appear with the Saradomin and Zamorak during the echo fight is because of limited resources. We permanetly gained a power upgrade (in the form of combat xp) in WGS. We've clearly used it.


Actually we CAN'T use the stone. World Guardian effects and whatnot.

Now I know what you're wondering, how did we use it in Dishonor Among Thieves? We didn't. We gained knowledge from it and temporally channeled it's power, but we NEVER absorbed its power. The experience gained was just your normal end of quest exp (and large amounts cause it was the first grandmaster). This is why you had the same effect from the SoJ before and after your World Guardian powers even though Jagex has confirmed the World Guardian cannot absorb powers from the Stone.

That's not to say that being a stonetoucher doesn't annoy the Dragonkin. It does, but nowhere near the level of being a False User. There's a reason we're one of the easiest of the people who've touched the stone to kill but the Dragonkin haven't went out of their way to do it yet.


... but WGS occurs before we became the World Guardian. :|


ROTM too if that counts. Though it's possible it doesn't.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-Sep-2016 05:55:20

Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

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Using Combat xp rewards as a way of saying "we gained power from the Stone" is very very shaky, at best.

We've gained knowledge from the stone, and channeled its energy, I don't think we've ever truly absorbed power from it though. I think the most you can say is that we.. tuned to it. We get a bonus in combat when near places the Stone was once kept, I think that's part of what being a 'Stonetoucher' is. We're able to tap into residual energy left behind by the Stone because we've experienced the Stone's power before, and know how to recognize it.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate .

15-Sep-2016 06:24:41

Iron Vampire
Mar Member 2023

Iron Vampire

Posts: 22,674 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hguoh said :
Iron Vampire said :
Hazeel said :
Iron Vampire said :
That's because we aren't "using" it so to speak. Ever realize how we get called stonetouchers instead of false users?


In WGS, the dragonkin refer to us as giving them power, because we used the stone. Jagex has confirmed that the only reason we didn't appear with the Saradomin and Zamorak during the echo fight is because of limited resources. We permanetly gained a power upgrade (in the form of combat xp) in WGS. We've clearly used it.


Actually we CAN'T use the stone. World Guardian effects and whatnot.

Now I know what you're wondering, how did we use it in Dishonor Among Thieves? We didn't. We gained knowledge from it and temporally channeled it's power, but we NEVER absorbed its power. The experience gained was just your normal end of quest exp (and large amounts cause it was the first grandmaster). This is why you had the same effect from the SoJ before and after your World Guardian powers even though Jagex has confirmed the World Guardian cannot absorb powers from the Stone.

That's not to say that being a stonetoucher doesn't annoy the Dragonkin. It does, but nowhere near the level of being a False User. There's a reason we're one of the easiest of the people who've touched the stone to kill but the Dragonkin haven't went out of their way to do it yet.


... but WGS occurs before we became the World Guardian. :|


Dishonor Among Thieves DOESN'T and yet gives the exact same effect that the WGS touching did.
7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

15-Sep-2016 06:36:14

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Sepulchre said :
Using Combat xp rewards as a way of saying "we gained power from the Stone" is very very shaky, at best..


Ah, Hazeel, I'm glad you're still around. Do you remember I said that something has changed about you?

Changed?

Yes, it must have been due to the close proximity of the Stone of Jas. Some change has taken place; some unexpressed potential - we saw that when you fought the demons, or at least the residue of your contact with the Stone. I think I can release the rest of it, but you will have to direct its flow. Are you ready?

What happened to me in there? I felt so powerful!

The Stone of Jas is obviously an immensely powerful artefact, one that has been touched by the gods themselves. I believe that you absorbed some of that power - only as much as a mortal can take, of course - and it made you capable of defeating the demons.


It's clear that we permanenty absorbed some of the power.

Iron Vampire said :
Dishonor Among Thieves DOESN'T and yet gives the exact same effect that the WGS touching did.


Except...y'know...permanetly gaining power from it.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-Sep-2016 06:56:56

Iron Vampire
Mar Member 2023

Iron Vampire

Posts: 22,674 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Sepulchre said :
Using Combat xp rewards as a way of saying "we gained power from the Stone" is very very shaky, at best..


Ah, Hazeel, I'm glad you're still around. Do you remember I said that something has changed about you?

Changed?

Yes, it must have been due to the close proximity of the Stone of Jas. Some change has taken place; some unexpressed potential - we saw that when you fought the demons, or at least the residue of your contact with the Stone. I think I can release the rest of it, but you will have to direct its flow. Are you ready?

What happened to me in there? I felt so powerful!

The Stone of Jas is obviously an immensely powerful artefact, one that has been touched by the gods themselves. I believe that you absorbed some of that power - only as much as a mortal can take, of course - and it made you capable of defeating the demons.


It's clear that we permanenty absorbed some of the power.

Iron Vampire said :
Dishonor Among Thieves DOESN'T and yet gives the exact same effect that the WGS touching did.


Except...y'know...permanetly gaining power from it.


Your own quote disproved what you said.

"And it made you capable of defeating the demons"

You didn't defeat the demons after the effects of channeling the stone wore off, you defeated them AS you were channeling the effects of the stone.

V is what happens when a human ACTUALLY uses the stone to power up.
7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

15-Sep-2016 17:23:09

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Iron Vampire said :
Your own quote disproved what you said.

"And it made you capable of defeating the demons"

You didn't defeat the demons after the effects of channeling the stone wore off, you defeated them AS you were channeling the effects of the stone.

V is what happens when a human ACTUALLY uses the stone to power up.


Also from WGS:

Idria: Some change has taken place; some unexpressed potential - we saw that when you fought the demons, or at least the residue of your contact with the Stone. I think I can release the rest of it, but you will have to direct its flow. Are you ready?

And when she releases that untapped stone power and you direct it, you get a hefty chunk of xp. In other words, a permanent gain of power from the Stone.

Edit: And as Hazeel already pointed out, Jagex admitted that the only reason our character's image was excluded from the Echo of Jas fight (the one that featured images of false users) was due to limited resources. In other words, Jagex considers the player character to have falsely used the stone at least once.

15-Sep-2016 17:59:41 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2016 18:50:02 by Hguoh

Iron Vampire
Mar Member 2023

Iron Vampire

Posts: 22,674 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hguoh said :
Iron Vampire said :
Your own quote disproved what you said.

"And it made you capable of defeating the demons"

You didn't defeat the demons after the effects of channeling the stone wore off, you defeated them AS you were channeling the effects of the stone.

V is what happens when a human ACTUALLY uses the stone to power up.


Also from WGS:

Idria: Some change has taken place; some unexpressed potential - we saw that when you fought the demons, or at least the residue of your contact with the Stone. I think I can release the rest of it, but you will have to direct its flow. Are you ready?

And when she releases that untapped stone power and you direct it, you get a hefty chunk of xp. In other words, a permanent gain of power from the Stone.

Edit: And as Hazeel already pointed out, Jagex admitted that the only reason our character's image was excluded from the Echo of Jas fight (the one that featured images of false users) was due to limited resources. In other words, Jagex considers the player character to have falsely used the stone at least once.


Except your argument is still flawed as we are a STONETOUCHER, not a False User.

Being a Stonetoucher means that we have taken KNOWLEDGE from the stone, not power.

And what is experience?

Also as I've pointed out already, being a Stonetoucher still doesn't mean you're in good graces with the Dragonkin, it just means they don't want to rip you apart as much.
7:46 speedrun for "Lurkers in the Woods"
9:51 speedrun for "Clobberin' Time!"

16-Sep-2016 04:38:07

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Hguoh said :
Edit: And as Hazeel already pointed out, Jagex admitted that the only reason our character's image was excluded from the Echo of Jas fight (the one that featured images of false users) was due to limited resources. In other words, Jagex considers the player character to have falsely used the stone at least once.

Why do the Dragonkin refer to the player as a Stonetoucher, then? That would imply that Stonetouchers are effectively the same as False Users, just on a small enough scale that it doesn't cause the Kin any pain/anger.

Either way, I'm not convinced that the experience rewards qualify as absorbing power from the Stone. At the very least, it was something else. Maybe touching Elder Artefacts automatically gives you special cosmic insight, or makes you super amazing, or whatever.

It makes more sense if Stonetouchers simply channel, while False Users absorb and are consequently tied to the Stone. That seems like a clear distinction that the Dragonkin would make. If the line between the two is hazier, if there's this weird threshold of power that you can absorb from the Stone without affecting the Kin... that would be a little dumb.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

16-Sep-2016 04:51:11 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 04:54:27 by Raleirosen

Hazeel

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Iron Vampire said :
Except your argument is still flawed as we are a STONETOUCHER, not a False User.

Being a Stonetoucher means that we have taken KNOWLEDGE from the stone, not power.


Except we got both. We got power as well as knowledge, ergo we are a false user.

Raleirosen said :
Why do the Dragonkin refer to the player as a Stonetoucher, then?


Good question. Why do they refer to us as a title Sliske only recently coined. How did they come across the term "stonetoucher". Is it really just a coincidence?

....Honestly, it just sounds like a lorefail one way or another.

Raleirosen said :
It makes more sense if Stonetouchers simply channel, while False Users absorb and are consequently tied to the Stone.


Well we gained a permanet power boost from the stone one way or another. I'd call that absorbing the power, but to each their own. Also, if what Jagex said is true, then we are tied to the stone, just as Lucien is.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Sep-2016 04:58:45

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Good question. Why do they refer to us as a title Sliske only recently coined. How did they come across the term "stonetoucher". Is it really just a coincidence?

....Honestly, it just sounds like a lorefail one way or another.

When did Sliske come up with the term? If that's true, I suppose it might lend credence to the theory that Sliske's master is one (or more) of the Dragonkin. Otherwise, might just be a weird inconsistency.

Hazeel said :
Well we gained a permanet power boost from the stone one way or another. I'd call that absorbing the power, but to each their own. Also, if what Jagex said is true, then we are tied to the stone, just as Lucien is.

It's possible that there are ways to gain power from the Stone that don't result in becoming a False User. Movario notes that it leaves residual energy in places where it rested; maybe the experience we received is part of that phenomenon. Maybe you only start using falsely if you use the power to ascend?

Regardless, the Dragonkin make it clear that the player is not a False User.

(also Lucien is dead and therefore not connected to much of anything, let alone the Stone)
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

16-Sep-2016 05:13:41 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2016 05:15:31 by Raleirosen

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