Forums

Potential Acquisition - Update Thread is locked

Quick find code: 294-295-346-65774421

NZ Sheeps
Dec Member 2018

NZ Sheeps

Posts: 10,342 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
One nagging doubt I have (and this might be something Krista can answer if she's still lurking).

300M seems a lot to pay for the company, I'm sure there would be better investments out there for that sort of money.

Could they be buying the company to run it at a loss so they can use it as a tax write off?

17-Apr-2016 02:36:22

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Velixje0 said :
Hi everyone,
How would I ever explain to my friends that I play a 'Chinese' game?


Tell your friends League of Legends, Neverwinter and Star Trek Online are also fully owned by Chinese companies.

They are all games for international players, not just "Chinese" games.

17-Apr-2016 03:52:53

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NZ Sheeps said :
One nagging doubt I have (and this might be something Krista can answer if she's still lurking).

300M seems a lot to pay for the company, I'm sure there would be better investments out there for that sort of money.

Could they be buying the company to run it at a loss so they can use it as a tax write off?


I don't know what Krista has to tell you, but a major fact is Jagex's potential new owner is taking out a loan on the money they are going to use to acquire Jagex. It will be extremely costly if they just try to let all the Jagex games die just for "tax" purposes. There were/are cheaper alternatives such as Bigpoint, which was acquired by the Chinese makers of League of Angels and Magerealm for only $89 million around the time of the Jagex deal.

17-Apr-2016 03:57:34

Tclcis

Tclcis

Posts: 4,540 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Velixje0, its an American company currently.



@Kiwi, its more likely that they would buy a Chinese company to do that as there's much less red tape. The amount of money suggests that they want the deal to definitely happen.
So we can assume its to escape the slowing economy of the yuan and put the value somewhere safe for a while.
But that's not to say or claim that Jagex cant work out big for them. The Chinese mobile gamers market is worth around $6b or so, being either the largest or second largest in the world. And Jagex has two games they have just released/will be releasing into the mobile market. Chronicle is going to be multiplatform and Idle adventures is for mobiles.
They just need a small amount of that market to make some serious profits.

@dilbert, running at a loss and letting the company die are not the same thing :P

17-Apr-2016 08:08:26

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tclcis said :


@dilbert, running at a loss and letting the company die are not the same thing :P


Eventually Jagex will die if it continues to lose money under the management of Honda which is already losing money from their mining operations, and will be losing more if they don't get back the interests they will have to spend on all the loans including the new one they are taking out to buy Jagex. But I don't think they will just sit there and watch Jagex to lose money. You can take a look at how other Chinese companies which bought into Western game developers worked on their Western subsidiaries. The likes of Tencent, Perfect World, You*u have already made or announced plans to make their acquisitions meaningful in the East. None of them sat or plan to sit there just to write off losses on their acquisitions for tax purposes.

17-Apr-2016 10:12:03

Tclcis

Tclcis

Posts: 4,540 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert, if the Chinese company are running it for a loss, it means that they are earning enough money in their other companies to need to offset the profits gained with "losses" s that they don't have to pay as much tax. It most likely does not apply to this situation at all.

17-Apr-2016 21:29:47

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tclcis said :
Dilbert, if the Chinese company are running it for a loss, it means that they are earning enough money in their other companies to need to offset the profits gained with "losses" s that they don't have to pay as much tax. It most likely does not apply to this situation at all.


There you go. Shandong Honda is already losing money in their core businesses in China. They are already borrowing money for the investments in their core businesses and now more on the Jagex acquisition. They are looking to grow their investments, not just sit there to spend more money on interests and claim tax loss.

There are already signs how similar Chinese companies, originally not in the gaming sector, acquired local and foreign game developers and proceeded to grow into global gaming forces. They did not just sit back and claim tax loss on their acquisitions. Not at all.

(1) Tencent, a well known tele-communication company, bought Riot. They then created their own gaming powers in the East by making heaps of social, online and mobile games across many platform. A couple of years later, they have evolved from a gaming noob company into a formidable deverloper and publisher in the East.

(2) Perfect World Corporation, once a filming and real estate company, purchased a small local game developer and renamed it Perfect World Entertainment, then they acquired Cryptic. You know the rest of the story about the change of business model and the globalization of the Cryptic games. Eventually, Perfect World shareholders made billions when it was privatized last year.

(3) You*u did not make many games and was not too well known in the gaming world, not even in the China. But then things changed radpidly in 2014 when it was acquired by China's #1 umbrella company. Less than 2 years later, they made huge leap forward to the West by acquiring Bigpoint.

How to interpret these Chinese business transformation? It's up to everyone.

18-Apr-2016 01:50:43

Tclcis

Tclcis

Posts: 4,540 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's great and all, but its wrong. It doesn't apply to this situation.

The mining company is only the front to a larger investment corporation that isn't making net loss. There is only suggestions so far that the company is going to report a loss.

Your foundation is wrong.

18-Apr-2016 04:40:48

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tclcis said :
That's great and all, but its wrong. It doesn't apply to this situation.

The mining company is only the front to a larger investment corporation that isn't making net loss. There is only suggestions so far that the company is going to report a loss.

Your foundation is wrong.


If they are already losing money, they don't need to make more loss on Jagex plus more loss on interest on the loan. If they are not losing money, it still makes them look pretty bad to their shareholders to acquire a company on loan for hundreds of millions just to claim tax loss while their peers are making colossal progresses and profits conquering the gaming markets investing their money for GROWTH. That's the point.

The situation in China for these companies in the brick and mortar industries is they know someday recession will hit their country and what their monies are pretty much dead in such industries. It is like the switching of Apples from the computer businesses to iPhone and more. They need new ways to make money on new markets.

18-Apr-2016 09:19:24 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2016 09:26:44 by Dilbert2001

Tclcis

Tclcis

Posts: 4,540 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The conglomerate that owns Hongda isn't losing money though. Why does it look bad if they borrow money to buy Jagex?

And where did I say it was to claim tax loss?

**** me, you spend more time telling us what we have said than actually reading what we did say.

As stated multiple times I believe that this acquisition has many objectives. Firstly, I believe it to be a hedge. Secondly I see it as a way to tap into one of the worlds largest mobile games markets. Thirdly I see it as a way to give Runescape back to the players.

18-Apr-2016 11:11:18

Quick find code: 294-295-346-65774421 Back to Top