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Bots in w302 GE

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Beethoven250
Feb Member 2023

Beethoven250

Posts: 81 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lelouch Vi B said :

First off, getting lured/scammed/phished is your own fault. It happens to everyone once, and you learn from it. The world isn't going to hold your hand and make sure you never make a mistake or get taken advantage of. Take your L and don't let it happen again.non-

While true, this isn't a really a good position for a game to be in. Tons of people quit after getting lured, and it isn't good for an active player base. Figuring out a way to mitigate thousands of YouTube phishing links from being spammed at the GE would help...

Lelouch Vi B said :

Second, yes, other games have this issue. You're probably just not thinking of the right games. Bots exist for 1 primary purpose: to make IRL money. Name a game with an economy, and I guarantee bots exist to exploit it.non-

Do other games have hundreds of thousands of bots spamming messages in real time at centralized trading locations over a 10 year span? Genuine question.

Lelouch Vi B said :

Third, the games you probably think of as not having bots (most of which still do) use other invasive third-part monitoring software like Battleye, which sifts all of your pc software (running or not), which is why many players hate these softwares.non-

Interesting, I didn't know this. So I guess this may be one potential solution which has some clearly defined drawbacks.

08-Mar-2023 12:41:14 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2023 12:51:59 by Beethoven250

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Beethoven250 said :


Interesting, I didn't know this. So I guess this may be one potential solution which has some clearly defined drawbacks.

i dont play other games.

but the bots they will have will be determined with in the game.

its why rs3 doesnt have these bots but osrs does.

rs3 have different bots to osrs.

so that point is invalid doesnt matter if the bots are all the same in all games.
pick any other game and whatever they bot issues they have we can go "yeah rs3 / osrs doesnt have that" they can do exactly the same

(you also didnt respond to my 2 posts :( )
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
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08-Mar-2023 12:50:55 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2023 12:51:38 by Tenebri

Beethoven250
Feb Member 2023

Beethoven250

Posts: 81 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lelouch Vi B said :

Bot Detector automatically screens, predicts, and reports all bots on your screen.... If you really are sick of bots and think enough isn't being done, install the plugin. At the very least, you can stop manually reporting the bots you see because the plugin is actually impressively accurate after all the data it has been trained on.non-

I've downloaded it, but at least on the surface, the client states that it has difficulties predicting spam bots at the GE. I'm guessing this is because they are level 3 bots that don't actually skill or anything, but just spam away.

A few friends of mine actually developed a long list of typical words/phrases that these spam bots use and can filter out 99% of these messages, but I decided to instead report every single one in the hope that they get banned sooner.

08-Mar-2023 12:53:29

Beethoven250
Feb Member 2023

Beethoven250

Posts: 81 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tenebri said :

this point doesnt help your point at all it solidifies ours. that is not as simple as you think it is.


When did I say I think it's simple?

Tenebri said :

you also said this place isnt for solution, which i disagree with.


"Rants: Focus more on the problem, not the solution here"

But, if we must concentrate on a solution, perhaps we could look at it from an economic perspective.

Seeing as these bots exist to make money irl, they will only continue to operate if they make a profit. The fact that they continue to exist means that it's currently profitable despite bonding their accounts (corollary, the fact they are bonding so many accounts equates to more revenue for Jagex, but I digress...)

If Jagex could kill the profitability of these bots, they would no longer exist. Maybe this would be a better way of looking at the problem? Or, we could all just throw our hands up and admit defeat...

08-Mar-2023 13:00:46 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2023 13:09:33 by Beethoven250

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I reckon if they only allowed alts through the jagex launcher, that might help. And if one gets a strike, they all do. Make people more 'accountable' so to speak. I'm not sure how VPN's would tie into all this but I feel like that could be a start. Also, why can't people just play the game as intended / vanilla, all these plug-ins seem to add to the bot problem (imo). Bob says:
A bank PIN will keep your items secure.
Always check the second trade screen.
Never trade in the Wilderness!
Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.
Never give your password out to anyone.

08-Mar-2023 14:42:11

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Beethoven250 said :


Tenebri said :

you also said this place isnt for solution, which i disagree with.


"Rants: Focus more on the problem, not the solution here"

But, if we must concentrate on a solution, perhaps we could look at it from an economic perspective.

Seeing as these bots exist to make money irl, they will only continue to operate if they make a profit. The fact that they continue to exist means that it's currently profitable despite bonding their accounts (corollary, the fact they are bonding so many accounts equates to more revenue for Jagex, but I digress...)

If Jagex could kill the profitability of these bots, they would no longer exist. Maybe this would be a better way of looking at the problem? Or, we could all just throw our hands up and admit defeat...

they did this before, with trade the trade limit, it stopped bots entirely as no wealth could be traded between accounts.

yes bots bonding their acc is money for jagex, but as ive mentioned a few times now, jagex do not make money on bots. they lose money that money goes to bringing down botting websites etc.

see below as to why from quote of another thread

Tenebri said :


https://www.eurogamer.net/runescape-bot-developers-neutered-in-court-battle


first sentence here (from 2012) article
RuneScape developer Jagex has won a
two-year-long legal battle
with a pair of bot developers who had targeted its MMO.

it takes a long time, and a lot of money, lawyers aint cheap, like i already said. so if you are wanting it done faster you will need another way to get rid of them, because what you have asked for is the exact method they are using right now.

there have been many more since 2012, not all get articles :L but they do mention it in home page sometimes.

its shit sure, but its the situation we are in,
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
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08-Mar-2023 14:46:16 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2023 14:46:45 by Tenebri

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
when the trade limit was released that was jagex pretty much red button only press this button if we are in worse case scenario. which they were. banks were about to stop working with jagex. unless they got the botting under control. because it wasnt just breaking game rules. botting companies were in alot of illegal activity, such as fraud, and that all went back to jagex.

so no dont think seeing bots in game is kept because jagex get a few £ of them. it is not true no matter what people say.

i know your avatar says member since 2023 but i assume you arent new, but i also dont know how far back your rs history goes. so idk if you are aware of trade limit in rs and what that was. or if you were playing during that time or not.

if you werent then i suggest looking it up. it be an eye opener in what jagex do to keep bots out of game.
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape
Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

08-Mar-2023 14:51:12

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SlR said :
I reckon if they only allowed alts through the jagex launcher, that might help. And if one gets a strike, they all do. Make people more 'accountable' so to speak. I'm not sure how VPN's would tie into all this but I feel like that could be a start. Also, why can't people just play the game as intended / vanilla, all these plug-ins seem to add to the bot problem (imo).

technically that is already the case. many people have had all accounts banned due to rwt / botting. and recently (i wont say the peoples name) 2 people had all accounts banned due to scamming / luring (its on reddit and youtube if you want to know, this isnt place to discuss it)
so they do already do this. they know everyones alts even with out jag launcher and jad account, which will come out soon

i dont see how the plug ins are adding to the problem. the way bots work in the past even before the plug ins are pretty much the same. its just better technology behind it as its 2023 not 2004 :P . so they really dont make it easier or harder. except now with RL there is a plug in to show who has scammed near you. and one that is helping with botting. so really overall the plug ins are helping crack down on scammers / botting. so the complete opposite to what you think.
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape
Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

08-Mar-2023 14:53:46 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2023 14:57:03 by Tenebri

Beethoven250
Feb Member 2023

Beethoven250

Posts: 81 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tenebri said :

i know your avatar says member since 2023 but i assume you arent new, but i also dont know how far back your rs history goes. so idk if you are aware of trade limit in rs and what that was. or if you were playing during that time or not.


Came back to the game in 2020, but began playing since before the GE existed. I didn't know that your avatar reset if you ran out of bond - is that why mine says Feb 2023? Weird that it wouldn't just state when your account was created.

In any case, my PARTICULAR issue is bots in 302GE. Couldn't they just be moderated by either jmods or pmods dropping by and taking 30 seconds to mute/ban the spamming offenders? I get that you're never really going to get rid of bots in general, as it's a constant game of cat and mouse. However, bots in 302GE (and 301 for that matter) are highly visible, and cause particular pain to many players. In aggregate, maybe 5-10 minutes per day of moderation would go a really long way to cleaning things up, and would be at minimal cost to a company that's clearly quite profitable.

10-Mar-2023 21:22:53

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Beethoven250 said :


In any case, my PARTICULAR issue is bots in 302GE. Couldn't they just be moderated by either jmods or pmods dropping by and taking 30 seconds to mute/ban the spamming offenders? I get that you're never really going to get rid of bots in general, as it's a constant game of cat and mouse. However, bots in 302GE (and 301 for that matter) are highly visible, and cause particular pain to many players. In aggregate, maybe 5-10 minutes per day of moderation would go a really long way to cleaning things up, and would be at minimal cost to a company that's clearly quite profitable.


This solution, as unrealistic as it is, still wouldn't work. Autochat is a thing in OSRS. Players are allowed to repeatedly advertise their services. You can't just start muting/banning accounts unless it's absolutely clear that they are breaking the rules, such as advertising malicious websites or gambling. You can't ban/mute a player for asking for money or for potentially scamming. I'm not ever certain it's against the rules to tell players to watch a specific youtuber, so long as you're not linking directly to it. There's no 100% way to look at an account and instantly know if it's legit. Jagex isn't going to stick a mod at the GE on 1 world to just stare at accounts and be like "maybe that one's a bot?" for 8 hours a day. Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

11-Mar-2023 00:00:34

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