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Space and Time question

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Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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Nosword said :
idk science but i think that much force would break stuff Quite probably, but then again we also thought it would take infinite energy to travel at Warp speed. But while it would presently require a lot more than we could currently produce, that energy estimate has been falling for a while. Teleporting was thought to be impossible and incredibly destructive to anything you tried it with but photons have been teleported, it's the muse that spawned the theory of Quantum Entanglement.

But traveling at FTL should rip stuff apart as well, yet a warp bubble can supposedly protect a ship while the relevant effects take place fore and aft to propel that bubble along. So if an object could be place in a ... stasis bubble (?, not sure what you'd call it!) that might protect it in the short term. Though I'd bet there would be some funky stuff radiated from it's reemergence!

Just like the theorised warp bubble bow wave is something to worry about. So not so much breaking stuff at our end there, as the potential to pulverise stuff before it dissipates :P The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
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23-Feb-2017 11:20:57 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2017 11:23:15 by Solanumtinkr

A13d

A13d

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Can someome explain how exactly "stasis" occurs? Again I'm not familiar with the terminology but what I was trying to get at is the result will depend on what happens to the forces suspending that object in that time frame. Can it happen from traveling at lightspeed or being bound by some immense local gravitational field or is the object just undefined for a certain 10 minute interval (only thing I can think of is wormhole) or is it just some science fiction thing (if u google it some science fiction wiki comes up idk)

23-Feb-2017 14:34:17

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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It seems to me that there is a lot of descriptions about time and space, but little true understanding. Even magnetism is only described and even though there is reams of books about it there are very different parts to the field in what they do and how they act, yet the only tool we have measures it all the same, like trying to understand colour when all you can do is measure light intensity.

It's like a group of tiny blindfolded people all describing different parts of an elephant, without having any clue what an elephant is and not being able to communicate what each discovers with each other or even grasp that it is the same thing they are describing. But describing a thing is not understanding a thing.

This is why I think that the current space time theories are just grasping at what we managed to find so far. Why dose time slow down? And if it is slowing down, what exactly is it slowing down that we are perceiving? Sounds simple enough until you realise that time is just a measure we chop things up into to make things measureable. A concept that is taken from granted and based on the time of day as a frame of reference. I think with time we have been describing the elephant but not understanding it.

Take wormholes for instance. Why does it have to be a physical hole in space? The only reason to say it is such is it would be easier to access that way. So why not a void? We've seen those after all, we just have no clue what they are. Or even just seen as a gravitational anomaly. Something we might think a planet from mathematical observations, but without ever finding said planet. So maybe we just lack an understanding of the space side manifestation of a wormhole.

It seems in a few cases the really weird stuff is a lot easier to do than first thought. But as a thought experiment and trying to see what would really happen could lead to an newunderstanding or finding something we missed before. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

23-Feb-2017 16:28:40

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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As for the term, Stasis, it is a way to describe an effect when we don't yet have the terminology for something that has yet to be properly delved into. But so far all time travel seems to take space and time as a single indivisible entity when nothing may be further from the truth. Or at least a long way from the whole picture. Especially when we have only just been able to start experimenting with the nature of space when before we thought it an empty nothing with just a couple of molecules bouncing around the vast majority of it.

Yet time is still a mystery that has only been described. We know something slows down with high gravity and speed but time elsewhere is still passing at a steady rate and if the universe ended suddenly both parties would still have been around for the same amount of time, yet they would have experienced different amounts of it...

So maybe what we have been trying to describe is in fact 2 different things using the same name? Perceived and Experienced? *Shrugs* They would probably then need their own names. Point being that we don't really understand why is happens as it does, so we are missing some jigsaw pieces. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

23-Feb-2017 16:46:52 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2017 16:48:09 by Solanumtinkr

Weyburns
Nov Member 2021

Weyburns

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Solanumtinkr said :

This is why I think that the current space time theories are just grasping at what we managed to find so far. Why dose time slow down? And if it is slowing down, what exactly is it slowing down that we are perceiving?

we can explain it, but it's not easy to understand:

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-time-slow-down-when-we-approach-the-speed-of-light-Does-time-really-stop-at-the-speed-of-light

Solanumtinkr said :
Why does it have to be a physical hole in space? The only reason to say it is such is it would be easier to access that way. So why not a void?

not exactly sure what your point is with this, buta wormhole can be a void or a gravitational anomaly, as far as I understand no ones said they can't be. Most images you see online are just artists taking liberty on the look of wormholes to look cool and easy to see.

http://www.spacetimetravel.org/wurmlochflug/wurmlochflug.html

"inally, at the end of the chapter Thorne notes that although they modeled the external appearance accurately, for the trip through the wormhole, the visual effects people took some artistic license, creating "an interpretation informed by simulations with my equations, but altered significantly to add artistic freshness.""

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/148091/would-a-wormhole-in-space-look-like-anything-at-all
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23-Feb-2017 16:55:21

A13d

A13d

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Yea wormholes aren't literally physical holes lol, but anyways my point is how the heck are we supposed to know what objective x, y, z, and t (if such a thing exists) or r, theta, phi, and t (if u wanna be fancy) that the object will even end up at if we don't know any of the mechanics of the forces that influence this possibly nonexistent thing called "stasis" to occur (I mean really.. those would be pretty essential factors in determining what exactly happens to the object and where in """"objective"""" space-time it ends up in 10 mins later, right?), it seems like the best we can do is guess or make up our own solutions while disregarding how little we know about the subject which seems a bit pointless to me but I guess I'm biased cuz I don't know enough about this topic and I'm like some engineer guy so I like stuff that actually makes sense

23-Feb-2017 19:12:01

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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In this thought exercise, we can ignore what happens in Dimension X :P (4 dimensional vector space) and just assume said object pops out then back in, as figuring out what might happen elsewhere to change the result would mean knowing what would happen without it's influence to a fair degree of confidence. Otherwise everything you think you see in a real experiment would be assumed to be due to Normal Space conditions, which is the only thing we'd be able to see.

Now try having a crack at it :P The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

23-Feb-2017 21:05:58 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2017 21:07:05 by Solanumtinkr

A13d

A13d

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Ok so first idk what dimension X is (like some made up ether that exists outside of space time?) but you can't ignore stuff that happens in the 4D manifold because that's literally what the space-time model is, I was talking about both the forces that exist under normal space conditions that cause this phenomenon to occur AND the stuff that who knows maybe might exist outside of it. But anyway I looked up the mathematical definition of how to actually calculate the interval between two different points in it, which is called 's' and is defined by
s^2 = delta r^2 - c^2 * delta t^2, where the displacement vector r is composed of some coordinates x, y, and z.
So lets just define some local points x0, y0, z0, t0, and t1 where t1 = t0 + 10 mins, so since we know the object is defined t = t0, t1 but not t0 < t < t1 then we know s has to be real for (x0, y0, z0, t0) and (x0, y0, z0, t1) but imaginary for (x0, y0, z0, t0 < t < t1). So for the imaginary case, c^2 * delta t^2 has to be greater than delta r^2. The easiest solution to this is when the displacement vector is zero, so by the time we hit t1, delta r^2 obviously can't be zero because t1 is 10 mins greater than t0 so the object had to have moved somehow, so its not going to be in the exact x0, y0, z0 coordinates after 10 minutes but like going back to what I was saying in my original post that literally doesn't mean anything because those points lose their meaning every split second because of the expansion of space and all these other things we don't know about so either we have a ball and make up wierd ass wormhole or spaceship solutions that conveniently solves the problem with whatever answer we wan't or we accept we'll never know what the hell happened to the thing or ask our alien friends for some 4D or dimension X movie glasses and go from there

24-Feb-2017 00:05:57 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2017 01:54:00 by A13d

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