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Weyburns
Nov Member 2021

Weyburns

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Kickotank said :
The access to clean water is still a problem for some people and some areas in 1st world countries. As well as food, shelter, medical treatment & medications, clean clothes.


yes, live in the middle of fking no where? yea i expect top of the line doctors, clothes shipped to me daily, and all the medication on my doorstep when I want it. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere then you should kinda expect those things. If you live in cities/villages then the infrastructure and government is built there to supply your needs. the bigger the city the more they're able to offer you. It's not rocket science. Maybe you should learn how cities are made.

Kickotank said :
Voter suppression exists in 1st world countries and is getting worse.


no clue what point you were trying to make here, but OK.

Kickotank said :
The majority are already complacent and government already run us over. The point being that no society is perfect. To deny that is ignorance.


Yes there will always be issues in the best of societies, my point is your issues pale in comparison to others in other parts of the world.
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11-May-2016 07:29:36

Weyburns
Nov Member 2021

Weyburns

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Kickotank said :
May you never find yourself homeless, struggling for food, water, shelter, medical treatment and medications.


Although i've never been homeless, in my work I do work directly with a foodbank that does help homeless receive the proper nutrition they need to live a proper life. I know that if I did go homeless there are other avenues that are out there to help me survive. Whether or not those homeless go and spend that money on drugs is their choice to burden themselves further and not help them get out of their problems. But there is generally the support there.

We also have a welfare system to ensure people can live, and offer low cost housing. We also live in a society where even if I did go homeless, I would have a chance to work my way up into a better life. My life isn't stuck at wishing I had enough food or water like some people in Africa. If I need water I can get water, food can be supplied at low cost and rationed out. If there is a will there is a way.

for medical treatments and medication, i've never had that issue cuz free healthcare. if anything life threatening comes along I get it all for free. Im assuming your'e american but maybe if you supported obamacare things would be moving towards that too. I have no clue why americans stand idly by while your government doesn't offer basic free healthcare to everyone, it seems like such a basic right to have yet you do not have it. I couldn't imagine living without it.
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11-May-2016 07:32:24 - Last edited on 11-May-2016 07:33:38 by Weyburns

J R Kerr
May Member 2007

J R Kerr

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still thinking about ways I can help you with this, and I'm not gonna top saying that texans who drive trucks are "truckers" cause thats damn funny (all texans drive trucks, and we're just texans), but it occurs to me that the problem is the lack of polish to your expressed grievance.

there is this thing:
Fallacy of Relative Privation

and its been recently disputed enough that its had its wiki entries and stuff jumbled around, but its most commonly expressed these days as the social network snark " first world problems " and it used to be " what about the children starving in africa " and its a long known logical fallacy for purpose of debate, because kinda like a strawman it leaves the confines of the prompt and response. I do it all the time when I see it being done always didactically pressing the idea that the reason we shouldn't use logical fallacies is that once you use one, then all of them are fair game, and I can sometimes sit with a list of logical fallacies and try to use them all.

So... if yer old lady does something like... makes you go back out to get the little girl ice cream even though she been barfing all day and can't eat it, then y'know... try surrendering that women are mysterious and wonderful, and that we can't begin to understand them. You don't want to be all like "rawr! misandry is real! women hate us!" cause it ain't true. Analogous to that little girl who wants ice cream that she can't eat... yer gonna get a bunch of ladies who want victories legislated that they won't unite to fight for, and... you gotta listen to that too. Its just hard to be them, and you will look a lot more manly taking that on the chops than railing back at it.
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11-May-2016 15:45:45

Kickotank

Kickotank

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@Weyburns

First and foremost I was directly talking about large cities in my example and I suppose I should have clarified that as you seem to think "oh big city, opportunities, no homeless, plenty of help" and the reality of that is it's just not true. Maybe it is where you live, I don't know, but it's certainly not here. There are more homeless in cities than shelters can accommodate. Few are lucky enough to even get a bed for the night. Most sleep in tent cities or under over-passes on cardboard boxes sometimes in -15 degree F weather and are frequently chased off by cops and have their makeshift shelters ripped apart. So I don't appreciate your condescending tone that I need to learn how cities work. If you want to attempt to belittle or insult my intelligence then we can end this conversation. I have no tolerance for that. I did not do that to you and I expect the same level of respect.

I thought my point on voting was quite clear. You said, "Would you rather lack the right to vote (which most people don't even vote), or have to spend 1/3 of your day walking to to only collect water?" You're implying that everyone has the right to vote and that no one lacks for water in a 1st world country. Sure, they may technically have the right to vote, but they are often caught up in loopholes that prevent registering and/or can't make it to polling places. So that 'right' is essentially being denied in any number of ways. A great many of those people also lack sufficient access to water, even food and shelter. I'm not sure why you didn't understand it.
Dread Pirate
Kickotank

11-May-2016 23:24:00

Kickotank

Kickotank

Posts: 2,062 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
With regards to food banks, I don't know how they operate were you live, but here they give you enough food to last 1 week and you can only visit once a month. The majority of it is junk. Frozen cakes and pastries, and various other typical junk food that lacks nutritional value. Now there's a bit of canned goods which is handy if your homeless and then a few frozen meat products. So, homeless with frozen meat thats supposed to be enough food to last for a week. Hmm? You have no access to refrigeration so what are you going to do? What could potentially last a week is going to last you about a day because you are going to cook it and eat it immediately on an open or barrel fire and hope the cops don't come chase you off in the process or RIP food. And that's not even mentioning the fact that you could potentially be assulted and robbed of anything you have.

We have a welfare system here as well and they require you to have an address. Some shelters will allow you to use their address to apply for assistance, but that's provided you can even get in to them. As far as housing assistance goes the issue with that is the vast majority of cities hold a lottery on applications. You apply, they pick from and hat and if you don't get picked you don't get housing assistance. They then close the applications for often several years at a time.
Dread Pirate
Kickotank

11-May-2016 23:24:15

Kickotank

Kickotank

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Then we run into this gem. A disabled person that worked their whole life and now finds themself living off of Social Security benefits recieves $X amount in benefits. The medical coverage they have does not cover all the services they need so they have to pay for those out of pocket. They apply for housing assistance and we'll say this area doesn't use the lottery system, they work off of a waiting list where a number of criteria puts you at a certain spot on that list. Of the $X amount in benefits they recieve half of that goes toward those out of pocket medical costs. When their application is reviewed for housing assistance it is determined that they recieve a very minimal amount over the allowed gross income limit. Despite paying out half of that for out of pocket medical. This is not taken into consideration. They are denied assistance and in reality they could pay the rent for a house, but they would be unable to pay for any utilities. Any landlord will kick you out if you do not have basic utilities turned on. End result, homeless.

And yes, this is in America. I do support the Affordable Care Act, (aka Obamacare), and I have lobbied my so-called representatives to support and impliment it in several states which I have lived. Low-cost and free healthcare SHOULD be a basic human right, but the politicians are in the pockets of healthcare corporations. Our laws are written so that government can't even negotiate the costs of medications and medical services. It comes down to special interest money they pay politicians to push these laws through because the reality is our "representatives" do not represent the citizens, they represent the corporations that funnel them money hand over fist.
Dread Pirate
Kickotank

11-May-2016 23:24:30

Kickotank

Kickotank

Posts: 2,062 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In conclusion, you may think these issues pale in comparison to other parts of the world and sure they probably do, but when you've lived them they are a terrifying, devastating and harsh way of life that anyone can sit inside their own bubble of security and ignore or pass off as "it's not that bad, there is help out there" when in truth it is limited and no where near adequate. And all of this happens in a so-called 1st world country.
Dread Pirate
Kickotank

11-May-2016 23:24:46

J R Kerr
May Member 2007

J R Kerr

Posts: 7,222 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
+ ACA prohibits gender rating insurance. Trudeau will get to it, I'm sure, but idk if its happened yet.

+ charities: what could go wrong?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/19/ireland-apologises-slave-labour-magdalene-laundries
^ pregnant unwed teens abducted as "wayward women," worked to death, and then buried in mass graves. thats what drove sinead o'connor insane.

+ I do not work hard. I am ahead.
It wasn't "natural law." I was just born lucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Lothian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Roxburghe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Three_Hundred
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr-McGee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kerr_%28Texas%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerrville,_Texas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr's_Patent_Revolver
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_James_Kerr
I have quit rsof because moderator found comments about darklight bonus damage on demons "off topic" for wildy flash mobs full of demons

12-May-2016 04:26:33 - Last edited on 13-May-2016 01:53:05 by J R Kerr

Weyburns
Nov Member 2021

Weyburns

Posts: 4,823 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kickotank said :
you may think these issues pale in comparison to other parts of the world and sure they probably do


woot you agree!!

Kickotank said :
but when you've lived them they are a terrifying, devastating and harsh way of life


i never said it was the most dreamed of way of life you could ever want. I'm not trying to disagree that being homeless is a really bad experience, I just said that there are way worse places in the world you could be in. You actually can work for things to get yourself into a better place. I'd rather be homeless in america than homeless in many other places in the world.

But hey maybe things are worse in america for the homeless people, but they still have chances of getting a better life, still have chances of getting handouts, still have chances of getting places to live. Other places in the world not so much, they don't get free money, don't get handouts etc.

Are there problems? yes. Should we work to make things better? Yes. Is it better than other places? Yes. Should we work towards ensuring everyones voices are heard? Yes. But saying that someones inability to vote in america is worse than lives in other parts of the world is crazy.

Sounds like you had a harder life than most, but go to North Korea and tell me how much worse america is. Go to the middle east where there are wars and your families are getting killed. Go to africa where you don't even have fridges, government handouts, or doctors. Go to many places in the world and show me how worse things are.
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12-May-2016 21:53:33 - Last edited on 12-May-2016 22:07:47 by Weyburns

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