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Yewnock
Feb Member 2021

Yewnock

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Not quite sure if it's worth considering tuska pieces. They are an uncommon drop, and you need 5 of them to make a mask, which only gives 20 slayer points. I'd rather just ignore them and not waste time picking them up or waste inv space ;) .

21-Jun-2015 03:41:02

Fatrekd

Fatrekd

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I factor them in. I bank the bones because my intention is to have as large of a loot tab as possible. Can't wait till the end. I am around 18m slay exp in with around 40m+ to go and I have around 450m+ loot tab. It is great!

I think I am only going to extend celestial dragons. Since I do other tasks than the prefered 5 (elves).
Join the clan " Green Bandits " today! Twitch/Twitter: @il_ija

21-Jun-2015 03:56:39

Yewnock
Feb Member 2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Oh, I meant it was not worth considering them for like overall efficiency (like pretty much anything I say on this thread), but you are free to do it if you collect them ;) . I have no idea on their drop rate, but if you do, the calculation is pretty simple: (your airut kills/h)*(mask piece drop rate)*(% of airut task weighting)*4 = extra extra slayer points earned per hour. Good luck with your loot tab goal! Be sure to do those qbd, tds and nihil tasks for max profit ;) .

Also, while writing that answer, I realised something. This sheet's average xp/h rates are based on the % of task weighting. I guess what I'll say is not that relevant since you are not including effigies and Greater Demons tasks (so on my sheet that was pretty important to consider), but to be precise, the xp/h should also be based on the time/task. Let's take an example: say someone only does rune dragons and gargoyles tasks, and that for this person rune dragons have 60% weighting and gargoyles 40% (it's not relevant if that's possible or not). Simply calculating the xp/h on those percentages, it would yield 0.6 * 83k + 0.4 * 153k = 111k slayer xp/h. Let's assume you get on average 200 gargoyles/task (= 39k xp/task) and 60 runes dragons/task (= 59k xp/task), equating to (respectively) ~16 minutes/task and ~42 minutes/task. So the average time per task is 0.6 * 42 + 0.4 * 16 = 32 minutes/task, and the average xp per task is 0.6 * 59k + 0.4 * 39k = 51k slayer xp/task. With these new calculations, we would have the new average of (51k xp/task) / (32 minutes/task) = 1.6k xp/minute = 96k xp/h.

As I said, it's not that relevant for your calculations (specially since those tasks on your prefer most likely have kind of close times/task). But if you'd like to include that on the calculations and don't mind the extra work, it could make them a bit more precise :) .

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Wise Thoth

21-Jun-2015 15:59:20

Lifer
Jul Member 2008

Lifer

Posts: 12,424 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The xp/h is based on kills per hour though, which isn't any different from figuring the average time to complete an average sized task? I mean like, time is directly proportional to the task size, i.e. less time if task size is smaller, more time if task size is larger.

Because ultimately, with both average time and average task size, you can calculate kills per hour, which should end up being the same as the kills per hour I mentioned?

I know you want the xp figures to be based on time so you can use effigies to deduct the time saved - but that could artificially increase slayer/combat/summoning p/h when the time saved is actually used else where (not training combat.) That'd really mess with the overall exp ratios.

A better solution would be calculating % efficiency - like for example, crystal tree is 40% efficient. That should be able to take in the time saved from effigies.

I don't know how to calculate that though... Like how to obtain % efficiency from comparing crystal tree to c2 dg with 120k wc exp + 80k fish exp p/h.

21-Jun-2015 16:31:49 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2015 16:43:31 by Lifer

Yewnock
Feb Member 2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It is true (or at least, we are assuming) time is directly proportional to task size, but the real source of the problem is that you calculated the total xp/h assuming the weightings mean a ratio of 15:8:9:11:8 (airuts:automatons:celes:dbs:wfs) of KILLS/h (which is proportional to the xp); but what the weighting really means is that ratio for TASKS (and the task:kills ratio is not the same for every task). I used the time/task method only to make it easier to calculate the final xp/h (and to make it more understandable).

And yea, I'm aware of that problem of artificial xp rates for slay/summ/combat :( . The solution I found for it is have time as the alone parameter. That is, consider the time needed to get 200m slayer (depending on the tasks selection) and subtract the time saved from training combat and effigies and summoning; the most efficient task selection would be the one which had lower (possibly negative) total time. I found that simpler than trying to calculate % efficiency. The (xp/h)/(1-time saved) calculation was used only to compare methods between themselves (like abyss ranging vs. arma, etc.).

On another note, fortunately we no longer need to worry about c2 efficiency since evil elders are better than c2 for woodcutting :p so that only doing fishing in c2 is efficient now, making calculations a lot simpler (hehe).

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Wise Thoth

21-Jun-2015 19:34:52 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2015 19:36:00 by Yewnock

Lifer
Jul Member 2008

Lifer

Posts: 12,424 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Would it be quite easy to calc the average task size time then?

We know the task size ranges from wiki pretty much.

Airuts: 150-180 -> average is 165

It's 358 kills per hour so -> average time to complete airut task is 27.65 minutes.

21-Jun-2015 20:29:58 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2015 22:37:41 by Lifer

Yewnock
Feb Member 2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well, we don't quite have any extra information about it (unless we started to record it?), so it sounds pretty reasonable to assume the average to be the midpoint of the range ;) . After that you know what to do: take the average time of the tasks, weight them accordingly; then take the xp/task (for combat/slayer/summoning) and weight accordingly; so that we have both average weighted xp/task and time/task rates. Divide one by the other for the average xp/h. (get the creatures/task averages from my sheet so you don't need to look each creature on wiki - although I don't have lava wyrms and the new dragons).

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Wise Thoth

21-Jun-2015 23:49:35

Lifer
Jul Member 2008

Lifer

Posts: 12,424 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I never heard of task size not being randomly distributed anyway.

@AoDude

Yewnock said :
Let's take an example: say someone only does rune dragons and gargoyles tasks, and that for this person rune dragons have 60% weighting and gargoyles 40% (it's not relevant if that's possible or not). Simply calculating the xp/h on those percentages, it would yield 0.6 * 83k + 0.4 * 153k = 111k slayer xp/h. Let's assume you get on average 200 gargoyles/task (= 39k xp/task) and 60 runes dragons/task (= 59k xp/task), equating to (respectively) ~16 minutes/task and ~42 minutes/task. So the average time per task is 0.6 * 42 + 0.4 * 16 = 32 minutes/task, and the average xp per task is 0.6 * 59k + 0.4 * 39k = 51k slayer xp/task. With these new calculations, we would have the new average of (51k xp/task) / (32 minutes/task) = 1.6k xp/minute = 96k xp/h.


Looking at our xp/h columns in the Experience Table in the first sheet. We replace them with xp/task (data is already provided in the detailed table.)

Leave the contribution columns alone, it should calculate the contribution of xp/task correctly, and the overall exp rate totals will be correct.

Unfortunately, unless we can somehow split a selected range of columns into two to fit in more data without adding new columns, we need to add 2 more columns for time/task.

The first column would be "Time per Task" and the second column would be "Contribution"
which is % of total weight * average time (this will be in minutes.)

Sum all the time contributions together, that'd be our overall average time of all tasks selected together.

Now we have both overall average xp rates and overall average time.

Then we do this formula:

(overall average xp)/(overall average time) = average xp / minute * 60 = overall xp / hour

22-Jun-2015 00:21:15 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2015 02:37:09 by Lifer

Lifer
Jul Member 2008

Lifer

Posts: 12,424 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
God Wars soulstones can now be charged via non-Hard mode kills at a rate of 1 charge per 5 kills.


^ Patch notes. Never have to worry about kill counts for k'ril again. Just get a soulstone drop from hard mode which is like 1/10 drop rate.

Edit: About kree'arra, it's free entrance every other task pretty much.

Also I remembered about kiting hard mode k'ril as Cam de elite has pointed out in other thread - you need magic, not melee :s

22-Jun-2015 15:03:35 - Last edited on 22-Jun-2015 15:12:29 by Lifer

Pryda
Mar Member 2014

Pryda

Posts: 782 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wouldnt kree with soulstone be free entry every about 5 tasks, you get around 30-40 kree kills per task and with soulstone being charged only every 5 kills this would be 6-8 charges per task?
You could of course camp for a few hours to get charges but idk. over here

22-Jun-2015 17:32:10

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