RuneScape Forum Archive | RS Forums and Fair Use!

Jan

2012

Norne

Forum Moderator Posts: 76,250 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Wilf said :
Does sort of relate to the point I was trying to make in that being correct isn't always the best way to do things.

Where subjective is concerned, there is no right. Not that I want to open a can of worms, but asking what is right in forum moderation can be as impossible to answer as "whos the better politician for the job?" History can make a claim, contemporary can guess, neither can truly call it right. That isn't to say some things aren't a darn bit clearer however. Removing a person screaming the Holocaust isn't real or some such nonsense is a bit different however.

Wilf said :
Jmods have never said anything about them not being suitable for that section or even the forums as a whole.

I'd repeat what I said above here, but add one more. I based my opinion on knowledge of what Jmods do, or at least claim to do. The primary reason Jmods use the forums (especially nowadays) is to gather feedback, but they certainly seem unlikely to do so in a forum like off topic which has, for all intents and purposes, no purpose for that. I'd be hard pressed to think of a LESS relevant forum for them in fact. "When history witnesses a great change, Razgriz reveals itself... first, as a dark demon. As a demon, it uses its power to rain death upon the land, and then it dies. However, after a period of slumber, Razgriz returns, this time, as a great hero"

09-Nov-2016 19:58:14

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Rather telling that you can get away with a lot due to different moderators actioning the same person. A lot of mischief is caused by this, including some particularly annoying individuals who set up people to get banned instead of them. Moderators warn them, they wait and return when the moderator ceases to be online or active. That I am tired of people circumventing actions is more telling about that then anything else. People who post 3 spam threads in a row should not be let off because 3 separate Fmods handled it. Thats ludacris."

I think he was "let off" because the mod could see he tried to post a proper thread not a spam thread and could also see that he wasn't getting any help from the other mod.

The mod had clearly seen his other threads so knew he'd been warned so I can't think of any other explanation really.

09-Nov-2016 19:58:16

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Norne said :
Wilf said :
Does sort of relate to the point I was trying to make in that being correct isn't always the best way to do things.

Where subjective is concerned, there is no right. Not that I want to open a can of worms, but asking what is right in forum moderation can be as impossible to answer as "whos the better politician for the job?" History can make a claim, contemporary can guess, neither can truly call it right. That isn't to say some things aren't a darn bit clearer however. Removing a person screaming the Holocaust isn't real or some such nonsense is a bit different however.

Wilf said :
Jmods have never said anything about them not being suitable for that section or even the forums as a whole.

I'd repeat what I said above here, but add one more. I based my opinion on knowledge of what Jmods do, or at least claim to do. The primary reason Jmods use the forums (especially nowadays) is to gather feedback, but they certainly seem unlikely to do so in a forum like off topic which has, for all intents and purposes, no purpose for that. I'd be hard pressed to think of a LESS relevant forum for them in fact.

In this case there was a right thing to do and it was to move the thread or ask him to post it in off topic.

Thinking on it the only way I'd approve the mods action is if I believed they had no idea that funorb threads are posted in Off Topic or that that was a suitable place, which I can't because I'd expect a mod who has been on here for a while to know such things.

As for the second part I think it common knowledge that for the time they're leaving funob so I doubt he really expected a jmod to comment. It is basically appeasement in that the guy can post his thread get a few comments and maybe get something out of using the forums. Unlucky for him in which mod saw his thread really which shouldn't be the case.

09-Nov-2016 20:07:16

Kakamile

Posts: 10,839 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Original message details are unavailable.
and the all but abandoned forums on funorb are so dead no one would see such a suggestion were I to post there
Given he didn't expect even a discussion if he posted on funorb forums, I think he was aware that in an ideal world funorb forums would be more effective than runescape forums.
In this case, not redirecting a new player to off-topic instead just soils his opinion of both game communities, as he's in a situation that NO forum will accept his feedback.

Original message details are unavailable.
Hey Gotheran,

Thank you for posting in the correct forum. I can see you're willing to discuss this topic further, so will leave this thread open. However, I've edited your title because it's misleading and clearly flame-bait.

Cheers.
Three threads before an fmod helped him, when clearly a discussion WAS desired by runescape forumists (two pages in a day).

I don't think he got off well. The tactless fmod response was unnecessary, so from that a resulting mute from giving the inevitable response to a tactless fmod would also be extremely unnecessary.

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09-Nov-2016 20:46:18

Kakamile

Posts: 10,839 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Archaeox said :
As to troll threads... if we use our judgement to close one, we're told we're being fascists and lock happy. If we don't close it, we're blamed for leaving it open. That's a no win.

As I see fmod drama, it's more about the issue of contradiction.

"Why is this thread of troll suggestions (ones both the OP and mod knows would be destructive to the game) getting away when other productive posts get hidden?"

If you're going to be lax moderators, then leaving the thread open is understandable.
That's a win.

If you're going to be "fascist" (quoting you) mods, then locking a thread trying to debase the game and community would be expected.
That's less of a win but a win nonetheless.

Being lock-hungry mods AND letting a troll off so much that an fmod gets into a one-way conversation with the troll in the thread?
That is contradictory enough to be THE REAL no-win scenario for the community.

What, did you think the OP who's infamous for two years of committed forum trollposting suggestions that hurt the game would change his mind after an fmod comment?

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09-Nov-2016 20:54:08

Dec

2011

Archaeox

Forum Moderator Posts: 53,398 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Kakamile said :
What, did you think the OP who's infamous for two years of committed forum trollposting suggestions that hurt the game would change his mind after an fmod comment?
So you think that an FMod's personal opinion of a user should be enough to justify locking a thread...?

That's how vendettas and accusations of bias start.

~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

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09-Nov-2016 22:53:25

Jan

2012

Norne

Forum Moderator Posts: 76,250 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The real irony here is that the OP of the thread we are all referring didn't bump either of threads I saw, the people who brought it forth were the ones who wanted it locked. "When history witnesses a great change, Razgriz reveals itself... first, as a dark demon. As a demon, it uses its power to rain death upon the land, and then it dies. However, after a period of slumber, Razgriz returns, this time, as a great hero"

10-Nov-2016 01:27:31

Kakamile

Posts: 10,839 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Archaeox said :
Kakamile said :
What, did you think the OP who's infamous for two years of committed forum trollposting suggestions that hurt the game would change his mind after an fmod comment?
So you think that an FMod's personal opinion of a user should be enough to justify locking a thread...?

That's how vendettas and accusations of bias start. Just as much as normal mods do. You already apply character judgements in your work when trying to judge if a player is trying to a) waste mod time or rant maliciously, or b) is innocently unaware of forum etiquette; the mens rea of the action affects how strongly you respond. The discussion of the last page is evidence enough of two different fmods responding differently to the exact same poster on the exact same subject because one judged the intent as more innocent than the other.

So please don't claim that fmods can be 100% opinion-blind in order to defend against a criticism.
It's the same attitude behind "oh you think we fmods are terrible? Well let's see how the forums get on with no mods!"
There's an almost globally established standard to moderation. The discussions on this thread and others are about recalibrating mod response, not demanding removal of all fmods/jmods/CoC. Spinning the former into the latter doesn't help discussion and just makes you seem out of touch.

If you want me to demonstrate judgement for you:
unnamed troll's thread:
- wrong forum from a guy with 10k pc
- suggests benefits to members who become f2p over other f2p
- suggests wep/armour tier higher than production tiers of f2p, making it f2p's only high level content outside a single runite ore.
- bosses that require p2p quests and gear and reward items unusable by f2p
- degrade mechanics more powerful than jmod intent for BIS f2p
response: question OP about these issues (like Norne did)

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10-Nov-2016 07:23:50 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2016 07:28:00 by Kakamile

Kakamile

Posts: 10,839 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

- false premises on every response to Norne, including this gem
Original message details are unavailable.
Narrow-sighted players won't be able to understand the brilliance of these proposal Not even interested in discussion or refining design to accomadate, just derailing and dramatizing for no gain. You were wondering if troll thread but that clinches it.

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10-Nov-2016 07:27:25 - Last edited on 10-Nov-2016 07:28:45 by Kakamile

Dec

2011

Archaeox

Forum Moderator Posts: 53,398 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ah I see, so you want to complain that there's too much judgement going on, while at the same time saying there should be more.

And then you complain that FMods aren't consistent enough!

Oh the irony.

~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

!! Slava Ukraini - heroyam slava !!

10-Nov-2016 07:34:00