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Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Agent B MiB,
It's funny that you should ask about rc as your example. I was in the top 100 both to get to 91 rc and to get to 99 rc, long before the trade restrictions and the GE.
I ran my own ess at first. Then I hired ess runners at the air altar (I was one of the founders of the original company operating at the World 16 air altar) until 91 rc, and then hired ess runners at the nat altar to 99 rc, sometimes in companies and sometimes solo.
And I kept right on going hiring runners at the nat altar until there were so many players with 91 RC that it was no longer possible to make money doing it. By that time I had 19m rc exp.
The end of free trade put an end to the ability to continuously hire ess runners, and put most of the runecrafting companies out of business. The World 16 Air Company is the only one that has survived to this day--but even it god knocked down to a very low level of activity compared to the pre-2008 days.
I made money hiring ess runners right from the start. But I was lucky enough to get in on it early. I don't know if that will be possible anymore even when free trade returns.
One of the things I loved about hiring ess runners is that once again, everyone wins. Crafters got the exp they wanted, and runners got the cash or runes they wanted. People loved us! :-)
I'll be very curious to see whether there will a resurgence of ess running after Feb. 1 at the various altars where there used to be thriving rc companies: air, law, and nature.
These days there are so many more ways to gain rc experience that it's possible that none of the old ways will come back to the extent that they used to operate. But at least it won't be trade restrictions preventing it from happening.
Meanwhile, all the old ways of gaining rc experience are still there. People used to use the abyss during the old wildy days, and it won't be any different now--except that there are good alternatives such as graahking that didn't exist before.

19-Jan-2011 21:09:52

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Agent B MiB said:
"are you aware that for a given item, the amount you mine to make the bars for it is almost double the exps you get for smithing it. this was to encourage higher level players to help low level players. the result was, merchants decided to use it to hold the skill hostage. in the end, the only way to really do smithing was to merchant. that is why so few did it."
You'll have to state that first sentence more clearly, since as of now, it's not clear whether you're talking about exp, cost, or something else.
The fact is, players can still do what Jagex originally intended: mine their own ores, smelt them into bars, and smith them into items. And I know some "self-sufficient" players who take pride and enjoyment in doing exactly that.
Merchants affect these players . . . not at all.
The reason most players don't do that is very simple: It's slow.
Overall, it's faster to make money in other ways, and spend that money speeding up the slower skills by buying the materials needed to level them most quickly, and selling the products at a loss.
Remember, the general goal of most RS players is to gain levels, and thus to rise in the hiscores rankings. And players will naturally gravitate toward the fastest ways to do that.
This does not prevent other players who simply enjoy the various activities of the game for their own sake from engaging in those activities to their heart's delight, and leveling up more slowly.
Basically, it's "different strokes for different folks."
Merchants make it much easier for those who want to level quickly to do so most efficiently. They also ensure that those who want to sell the products of their labor will find ready buyers even when that item is not in high demand by regular players.

19-Jan-2011 21:17:44

dunforgiven

dunforgiven

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..Then I hired ess runners at the air altar..
there in lies the secret to your success: buy it. not all of us could afford to buy rc exp.
...You'll have to state that first sentence more clearly, since as of now, it's not clear whether you're talking about exp, cost, or something else...
if you mine your mith and coal, you get double the exps for smithing it into items. same goes for steel, addy and runite frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 21:18:21 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 21:21:07 by dunforgiven

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Back to leveling rc, there are so many ways to do it now that nobody can really complain.
In addition to running your own ess to the altars, there is the abyss, graahking, the ZMI altar, the Great Orb Project, rc altar tabs from GOP, etc., etc.
What's wrong with this picture?
I don't really see anything wrong with it. Jagex has provided many choices for a skill that used to be slow, tedious, and boring.
So take your pick!

19-Jan-2011 21:21:33

dunforgiven

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 21:21:33
...addition to running your own ess to the altars, there is the abyss, graahking, the ZMI altar, the Great Orb Project, rc altar tabs from GOP, etc., etc
the gop almost requires you to be part of a clan that is doing the "one side always win" statagy. ive heard of clans that do the 50/50, but ive never seen one in action. there was a time when i tried for several rounds to get into a game but both sides were full. those might have been a 50/50, but it didnt help.
all the others are so expensive or takes so much longer for an extreamly slow skill, its not worth talking about, save the abyss.
basically, your ***wer to this is to buy all your skills. maybe that attitude is why rwters have it so easy finding customers. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 21:25:16 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 21:27:40 by dunforgiven

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Agent B MiB,
It's true that Jagex has set many "constants" in the game that fundamentally affect how game play and the rs economy will function.
One of those multifarious "constants" is the amount of exp you get for doing the various things that make up the different combat and non-combat skills.
Once those constants are set, Jagex will be very loath to change them, since any change would have huge ripple effects, shifting vast segments of the game into different patterns.
So although we can gripe about what constants Jagex picked for mining exp, smelting exp, smithing exp, and so on, it makes more sense to simply be pragmatic and accept that that's how things are.
Maybe I don't like gravity. But no matter how much I may complain about it, it would not be very smart to jump off a 50 story building! ;-)
The RS economy adjusts itself naturally to those constants, just as the physics and biology of the real world adjust themselves to such constants as gravity and the speed of light. If those constants were different, reality would be different.
But reality is what it is. And though Jagex *could* change it, they know that even small changes to the already established constants could create chaos in the game.
The whole RS economy is built around those constants. Instead of wishing they were different, it makes more sense to understand what they actually are, and how they function, and adjust our game play accordingly.
That's exactly what the RS economy and its merchants and ordinary players do, whether you like it or not.

19-Jan-2011 21:30:34 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 21:42:13 by Mystic Monad

Mystic Monad
May Member 2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Agent B MiB,
I think it's fairly likely that at some point in the future Jagex will make changes to GOP that prevent the abuses of it that the clans now practice. That includes 50/50 and one side always wins--both of which Jagex has gone on record as saying they are "not in the spirit of the game," and stronger.
It's been a while since I've played GOP. But there's still nothing preventing a group of friends getting together and playing it the way it's meant to be played.
As far as buying skills, as I said before, nothing is preventing any player from doing it the way Jagex originally intended it: self-sufficiently leveling skills.
If you enjoy doing it that way, nothing is preventing you from mining your own ess and running it to the altars, or using the abyss.
I did a fair amount of abyss rcing in the old wildy days. It will remain quite possible when the wildy returns--but will be much riskier, as Jagex originally intended it to be to compensate for its greater speed.
When I was hiring nat runners I got reports on runners who died, and I saw (and gave preference to) runners that made it through poisoned and half dead. The runners ran anyway, because it was still a great deal, even after occasionally losing their pouches and other stuff.
The same went for regular abyss rcers. Getting pked from time to time was just the price you paid for faster rc exp and faster rune production.
Now there are other options that are equally fast, if not faster. The players will decide which is best after the old wildy comes back.

19-Jan-2011 21:37:15

dunforgiven

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 21:30:34
Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 21:42:13 by Mystic Monad
Agent B MiB,
It's true that Jagex has set many "constants" in the game that fundamentally affect how game play and the rs economy will function ..
you dont get it.
jagex was forced to create 2 updates to RESCUE smithing from the merchants: blast furnace and the kingdom of mis.
the point is, pre ge, merchants ruin the game forcing jagex to do the exact changes you say they wouldnt do. as long as they do it though the ge, they cant control the prices, so they are a mute point. as long as jagex does not give them total control again, there will not be a problem. what many people are demanding is jagex does exactly that, give that small number of people that kind of control.
...That's exactly what the RS economy and its merchants... whether you like it or not...
not post ge update.

...As far as buying skills, as I said before, nothing is preventing any player from doing it the way Jagex originally intended it: self-sufficiently leveling skills...
save time. 7 years, hundreds of hours, and im not anywhere near where getting all 99's. with this update, that looks like it will happen on the 12th of never.
im going to give jagex the benifit of the doubt. since its obvious that they have been planning this for a very long time, some things now make sense. agility armor has no purpose now, save that it will reduce your weight. BUT with it having a ballance defense, and the amount it will reduce, its possible that it will allow you to run the abyss armored. this means it might just be possible to survive an attack by the death dots.
the thing is, that armor is proof of exactly how long jagex has planed the return of the wild. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 21:46:38 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 21:52:37 by dunforgiven

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19-Jan-2011 21:46:49

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