RuneScape Forum Archive | A Quick Guide to In-Game RP

May

2019

DormamMagus

Posts: 3,718 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Twillow said :
-coughs-

I didn't say that last bit that you attribute to me, DormamMagus.

Thank you, though, for the analysis and explanations!
Essentially, if

they have different audiences and different uses so the topics are handled in different manners and with different levels of detail

, then it's something to make that clear (or clearer) on the two threads in the introductory posts. I think that your answer to my question 1 is a good start in making that clear. Also,

This is an introduction to our roleplay community, not a guide on how to roleplay in it.

It's up to you all about the scope of the discussion. I've tried to focus it on the content in both of the stickies. If it turns out that you all clarify/improve content in both of them, it could only benefit the community, it seems.

Also, I'm just here to help the process move forward. We would like decisions to come from the community.

Edit: I'm adding another quote of yours that helps clarify things.

My apologies! I saw green and forgot to double check names. I've updated my original post to accurately attribute the quote.

20-Jul-2018 21:53:44

Sheol

Posts: 1,971 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thanks for shifting the dialogue along, Twillow.

In response to question 1: I think, for the most part, I’d reiterate Magus’ answer to this question. The intro thread is a quick reference sheet so that new roleplayers at the very least have some baseline knowledge if they decide to jump into the server after reading it—so they know where to find help, where to find roleplay and some basic knowledge to boot. The guide has, as far back as I can remember, been much more on learning *how* to roleplay—the various intricacies such as terminology and balanced character creation.

In response to question 2: I can reinforce the minor analysis I did yesterday on what I saw between the two stickied threads in question, and the introductory thread that predates this one. To add on to this, too, I think exploring the hassle that came up from the new Intro thread is necessary.

Yesterday, I focused initially on the claim from the Guide’s owner that the Intro’s content borrowed heavily from content mostly on the Guide’s first page. This is untrue. The two pages share two things, as I shared yesterday: a definition of roleplay and a list of symbols. The Guide explains symbols in much more context than the Intro, and I believe their inclusion on the Intro thread is there to provide a quick understanding, and I think it’s an acceptable thing to share across the threads.

The definition of roleplay, on the other hand, is something carried over from the previous Intro thread, and I think is incidentally used by both stickies as a ‘way-in’ to later content. However, as stated yesterday, both are used very differently. ...But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This, I did.

20-Jul-2018 22:28:39 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 22:35:24 by Sheol

Sheol

Posts: 1,971 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The only other similarities I could find (throughout the Guide’s entire content) were types of roleplay described as well as a brief descriptor of the context of the server. I don’t find the types described as an egregious inclusion either—I think it’s something helpful for a new player to know and which the Guide can do well to reinforce. The Guide however goes into a lot of detail, most of which is unnecessary, but we’ll come back to that.

The differences are very large—the Guide boasts 4 more pages than the Intro and thus goes into very different detail. The first page of the Guide discusses character creation as well as methods of roleplay, though these are outdated—again, something to come back to. I maintain the belief that the threads are not similar enough, with the Intro looking more at where to find roleplay as opposed to how to.

To focus on unnecessary content, however, I think points something of a finger at what currently comprises the Guide. As a returning player, I’ve had time to digest the Guide as a returning party as well as see the new Intro formulate. What I’ve discovered is—as many initial posts on here and the Guide suggest—is that the content of the Guide feels unsuitable for the current sphere of roleplay and is tonally inaccurate for the community.

I feel a large benefit of the new, rewritten Intro has been cutting away some of a lot of redundant humour and unnecessary content that has been present in its predecessor. It gets to the point and does so effectively. Most of the initial posts have received it positively. ...But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This, I did.

20-Jul-2018 22:28:55 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 22:31:56 by Sheol

Sheol

Posts: 1,971 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The Guide’s newest rendition, in contrast, appeared to have been very reluctantly accepted in the first place and though it has been worked on consistently, reads as a quite outdated and ultimately quite unhelpful guide. Immediately being thrown into advice for an outfit, a religion, and a personality trope, whilst being densely submerged in aggressively witty language is not helpful and instead feels like a deterrent. Characters are not frequently made via this process by many roleplayers—if any at all—and immediately sets out to confuse. Themeplay, Gameplay, Textplay are all categories not necessary since only one form is now prevalent. Further things present are just features not found in public roleplay on this server—such as haunting after death. Four posts are dedicated to a character sheet that is so woefully unsuitable for character creation at all, never mind one for roleplay, that it’s confounding it’s present on the Guide at all. There’s a mentor list that has been actively unwritten to just contain the Guide’s owner. All of this is displayed in overly written, uninteresting wit that is unattractive to read.

To conclude, then, I think where we are right now means that two threads remain necessary. They seem both distinct enough and I think effort should instead be expended elsewhere to ensure both threads are as easy to consume for a new player as possible—which right now I think the Intro achieves more.

Also: trying to shutdown a community discussion before one even starts is not acceptable and is an unnecessarily dismissive way to dispute input from others on this forum.

EDIT: all edits on these posts have been for grammatical reasons, with the exception here being on clarifying the P.S. message. ...But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This, I did.

20-Jul-2018 22:29:07 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 22:51:16 by Sheol

Aug

2021

Aurelia I

Posts: 911 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A few of my own opinions.

The current Guide feels very outdated. I wasn’t even sure that the owner roleplayed anymore, and felt the need to ask him. There are several paragraphs that read like a guide about roleplay in 2015. The Guide also feels...different. I can’t put my finger on it, but something about being told to create a character by way of choosing an outfit and a religion first is just off putting. I prefer to write an abstract for a story line, something closer to cliffs notes for a novel, and brainstorm from there. The outfit, the religion, even the character’s name and personality are naturally developed through the story as it is told.

Then there are some parts of the guide, which I won’t mention by name, where even after a year of rust has accumulated on my shoulders I can instinctively point to and say “yes, I know who originally wrote that, and why”. There shouldn’t be this sort of feeling in a reference for new or returning role players. The wikia doesn’t have that feeling for much of its content, and on that website you can actually see all of the contributors.

Lastly a comparison of the two threads which are under debate. The newer intro thread is okay. Not great, as it doesn’t feature much for returning role players, and it is still a bit confusing for newer ones. It could do with a few additions, but it comes across as an attempt to say hello. The older guide feels almost vestigial in its current state. If I need a reference guide I must instead refer to the RSRP wiki, of which there is only a tiny mention on the guide, or ask an experienced player for assistance, for which only one is listed on the guide.

Based on this I would recommend a complete revision of the Guide, and a bit of simplification and addition made to the Intro. The Intro is short and to the point of being a true introduction. Tutorial Island. The Guide, at least to me, feels caught in an odd limbo between the wiki and the game itself, but is neither. Ashdale. All that for a pile of bricks.

21-Jul-2018 11:19:32

Oct

2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Aurelia I said :
something about being told to create a character by way of choosing an outfit and a religion first is just off putting.

I prefer...

I'm going to single this part out, because at this point the topic is turning more to my thread, and not Lozz's, which means it shouldn't be carried out extensively here. I highlighted "I prefer". The reason I highlighted that is because you're quite experienced in telling a story, in fitting things together, you don't need

help

anymore. As such, things like a three-step guide on how to begin character creation does seem pretty trivial and offputting.

Outfits can be difficult to swing together, especially if you don't have money (in-game or real-world) at your disposal. So what I did was I had the outfit be the start. I've gotten countless ideas for plots or new characters, even had personalities and ideologies fleshed out, but then couldn't get an outfit together that felt natural or even fitting to the character, and I'm by no means new to this. It's a far sight easier for a fresh face to throw together something they like the look of, and build around that, than to try and build an outfit around a personality or an ideology, especially if they're trying to go for something they haven't seen someone else use, should they have come to the forums from discovering and hovering around the game.

Of course, the three-step guide to character creation falls off once you get your feet wet. That's not a bad thing. Certainly something I'm not bothered by - There's a reason it's the first part of the actual guide. The Sicarius |

They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

21-Jul-2018 12:08:45

Sheol

Posts: 1,971 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

RiDaku said :
I'm going to single this part out, because at this point the topic is turning more to my thread, and not Lozz's, which means it shouldn't be carried out extensively here.

Twillow's post indicated that both the Guide and Intro thread can and should be discussed and analysed here as extensively as necessary until a community conclusion is reached. Consistently attempting to shut this down is reflecting poorly on you, especially after you've started this entire discussion in the first place. ...But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This, I did.

21-Jul-2018 12:33:01

Oct

2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Were I trying to shut "this" down, I'd have stopped responding entirely. I can't really see how "We should create a new thread to discuss this" is anywhere close to what you're saying I'm trying to do. The Sicarius |

They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

21-Jul-2018 13:16:44

Sheol

Posts: 1,971 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

RiDaku said :
Were I trying to shut "this" down, I'd have stopped responding entirely. I can't really see how "We should create a new thread to discuss this" is anywhere close to what you're saying I'm trying to do.

Your first post suggested quite blatantly that you don't want a discussion on this. Your second post states you don't want your Guide referred to on here at all, despite the fact that the FMod verdict mentioned that creating a separate thread was now unnecessary as the discussion started here.

Feel free to answer a very small part of Salt's critique, but reiterating your dissatisfaction that your Guide is now in the discussion too is simply off topic. ...But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This, I did.

21-Jul-2018 13:44:36 - Last edited on 21-Jul-2018 13:48:24 by Sheol

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21-Jul-2018 16:25:00

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A Quick Guide to In-Game RP