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DormamMagus
May Member 2019

DormamMagus

Posts: 3,718 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Disclaimer: While I didn't write this thread, I was involved with discussions on what to talk about and helped out with some choices on wording particularly on "touchier" subjects within it. I wanted to put that out there to begin with.


For what it's worth, I fundamentally disagree that this is an attempt to "rehash" the In-Game RolePlay Guide. It's meant to improve on and replace the former intro thread and I think it's done both. So when RiDaku says that this thread is "A far sight different than what this thread does currently" on pg 3 he's right.

The old thread wasn't useful after a first glance and became outdated as soon as it was made. One of our guiding principles when drafting the thread was that it needed to be as relevant to someone coming into the community but also as timeless as possible.

We talked about other stuff that would be worth articulating and putting in but we didn't. Why? Because this isn't meant to be an extensive guide to Rp. If we wanted to write a new guide to replace the existing one we could have and would have.

But again, this wasn't meant to recreate the thread it replaced either. Because again, it had very little uses outside of a cursory glance. The Intro serves as a compact, concise, and clear introduction to roleplay in our community. The old welcome page through all of its iterations had little use. But it's not an extensive guide. We have one of those.

Considering Twillow's two questions:

1) The Intro serves as a quick reference sheet with minimal information. Informative but not overwhelming. The Guide serves as a more detailed guide to roleplay covering individual topics related to creating and using characters and being involved in RP in General.

Continued below.

20-Jul-2018 18:41:29

DormamMagus
May Member 2019

DormamMagus

Posts: 3,718 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
continued from above.

2) I'll do a more thorough look at this question later. Is there some similarity? Of course. Similar ideas are touched on because both are about in-game roleplay. But they have different audiences and different uses so the topics are handled in different manners and with different levels of detail.

Closing thoughts:
If the community feels that the two threads are too similar. Which I'd fundamentally disagree with then I think it's worth letting the community decide which one needs to be a sticky. But again, I disagree both that they are too similar. I do think the guide needs modernization and clarification in spots but I don't know that that's the discussion to have here and I don't think that it's beneficial to hash out my issues with the guide (which aren't new. I've had them for the last 3 or 4 iterations but again not the time or place).

In my opinion, the two guides are fine left as they are with the topics they cover. They don't overlap and they were both coexisting on the forum for a month before a complaint was made to the f-mod team. I wholly disagree with ms toxicity's view that "As such, your references to in-game role-playing are not required in this thread, as this information already exists in the thread mentioned above."

This is an introduction to our roleplay community, not a guide on how to roleplay in it.

20-Jul-2018 18:41:54 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:52:33 by DormamMagus

Twillow
Aug
fmod Member
2005

Twillow

Forum Moderator Posts: 49,241 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
-coughs-

I didn't say that last bit that you attribute to me, DormamMagus. =(

Thank you, though, for the analysis and explanations!
Essentially, if
they have different audiences and different uses so the topics are handled in different manners and with different levels of detail
, then it's something to make that clear (or clearer) on the two threads in the introductory posts. I think that your answer to my question 1 is a good start in making that clear. Also,
This is an introduction to our roleplay community, not a guide on how to roleplay in it.



It's up to you all about the scope of the discussion. I've tried to focus it on the content in both of the stickies. If it turns out that you all clarify/improve content in both of them, it could only benefit the community, it seems.

Also, I'm just here to help the process move forward. We would like decisions to come from the community.


Edit: I'm adding another quote of yours that helps clarify things. =)
like a chica cherry cola

@Twillow_RS|| #teamblue|| #Purple4life

20-Jul-2018 19:42:36 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 19:44:19 by Twillow

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Alright, I'm awake and caught up, let's get to posting..

Hey, Twillow! Good to see you again. I see you recommend a community discussion and while under normal circumstances I'd agree, yes, a community discussion is the appropriate action here, unfortunately with the state our roleplay community is in, it won't actually be constructive or really go anywhere at all. As can be seen in this thread, cooperation isn't exactly our forte, to the point of actual silliness. It's not something that's going to be easily solved, especially in something like this. Which is why I went to Forum Help instead of starting a discussion. This is the reason why you don't see many spring up on our forums anymore. Because of this, I'd like to look at the facts.

-The previous introduction thread hosted by RolePlayer shared very little similar topics with any incarnation of the In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help thread since its creation, despite the intro thread having its host leave RuneScape some years ago.

-This current thread takes some information from the previous Intro thread, and a lot of information (downsized) from my own In-Game Roleplay Guide & Help thread.

-My thread has existed for over a year, and this thread is a month old.

-Very few people are going to want to read the same information twice, even if it's written
differently or has more information.

-My thread is MUCH larger than this one, by quite some pages, with some topics spanning
multiple posts. Reformatting mine to allow some of its information to sit here would take
a lot more work and post-moving than it would to have this thread's content be
changed.

(continued) The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

20-Jul-2018 21:04:29

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Because of this all, I stand firmly by my statement that a lot of this thread's content simply doesn't need to be here. I've no problem with CrocoNuts hosting a sticky, contrary to an accusation that's been thrown at me in this thread, but instead my problem lies in the same information being found in the same forum stub on two threads quite literally stuck together.

As I've said previously, the previous Introduction thread - Which was praised so highly for its content - prioritized educating its readers on how to maneuver the forums, what to look for in a thread, provided (outdated) links to the main group(s) that operated in one area, and educated people on forum etiquette as well as a where to find roleplayers in-game. This thread does almost nothing of the sort, instead offering itself as a Lite guide, a sampler, which is not needed considering the way the full Guide is structured.

Furthermore, and this is something a community discussion could prove fruitful for, is: Should either guide have a single post dedicated to telling people about the state of the W42 Roleplay community? Things like warning them about vendettas or grudges that might affect witnessed interactions, or not to get too invested (and if they do, to pull back the moment they feel uncomfortable or unwell). <-That isn't something exactly new to us, we've lost quite a few people because they were too emotionally invested in our community and when our cooperation dropped, so did their mental health. Of course, this last post itself is something a separate thread would be good for (for discussion purposes.) The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

20-Jul-2018 21:04:32 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:15:07 by RiDaku

Eridyn
Dec Member 2010

Eridyn

Posts: 2,947 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said :


Furthermore, and this is something a community discussion could prove fruitful for, is:Should either guide have a single post dedicated to telling people about the state of the W42 Roleplay community? Things like warning them about vendettas or grudges that might affect witnessed interactions, or not to get too invested (and if they do, to pull back the moment they feel uncomfortable or unwell). <-That isn't something exactly new to us, we've lost quite a few people because they were too emotionally invested in our community and when our cooperation dropped, so did their mental health. Of course, this last post itself is something a separate thread would be good for (for discussion purposes.)

Something like this is not a topic that should be placed on a thread and have attention drawn to it. It is also close to being against RS Forum rules, which does not allow anyone to flame or harass one another, which a thread listing the grudges has the danger of very easily becoming. I wouldn't pursue this idea any further.
@Eriddyn
|
Lorehound
| [
Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
.

20-Jul-2018 21:22:24 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:24:07 by Eridyn

Valiesin
Dec Member 2021

Valiesin

Posts: 3,781 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said :

Should either guide have a single post dedicated to telling people about the state of the W42 Roleplay community? Things like warning them about vendettas or grudges that might affect witnessed interactions, or not to get too invested (and if they do, to pull back the moment they feel uncomfortable or unwell). <-That isn't something exactly new to us, we've lost quite a few people because they were too emotionally invested in our community and when our cooperation dropped, so did their mental health.

Buzzkill. I'd hope the owner of the World 42 Help & Guide wasn't insinuating his community is full of delinquents and deplorables or that the receiving end of online bullying/banter is always someone with mental health issues. This isn't the first or last instance your opinion of this community should bring to mind reasons why you shouldn't represent our community on the forums.

Furthermore, we've addressed before that there wasn't a max exodus from World 42 because individuals 18+ years old or otherwise, functioning adults, got their feelings hurt. They lost interest in a game that disappointed them for gameplay/RP purposes (updated lore, seemingly abandoning the Sixth Age conflict, disappointing/over-hyped releases) and moved on to other MMO's.

You can feel as strongly as you do about the injustices of the internet, the online world, and the culture surrounding it, but you won't take up the banner of this community with you when you confuse your own experiences with the mass majority. .„¸¸,.·` |
Valiesin
| `· .,¸¸„.

20-Jul-2018 21:36:36

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Eridyn said :
which a thread listing the grudges has the danger of very easily becoming.

I wasn't saying that we should have a post or a thread talking about who's upset at who. I was saying that we should let people know that it exists, and definitely has an effect on how smoothly things go. The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

20-Jul-2018 21:44:35

Eridyn
Dec Member 2010

Eridyn

Posts: 2,947 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said :
Eridyn said :
which a thread listing the grudges has the danger of very easily becoming.

I wasn't saying that we should have a post or a thread talking about who's upset at who. I was saying that we should let people know that it exists, and definitely has an effect on how smoothly things go.

By giving credence to them on the forums though, it gives them legitimacy in a more official capacity, which shouldn't be encouraged. The grudges are between the people themselves, not the community as a whole, and if it is, it should be discouraged by not giving it any platform to be scrutinized on. Let that remain between discussions outside the RS forums.
@Eriddyn
|
Lorehound
| [
Role-Player
| "A flame can never be a star, no matter how bright it burns." -
Jas
.

20-Jul-2018 21:50:06 - Last edited on 20-Jul-2018 21:51:06 by Eridyn

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