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Zrie

Zrie

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Role-Player said :
Mages, ideally, should be really weak in close combat, while they should be able to decimate at long range. Making like ... a mage-tank? Is OP, I think. I've no problem with 'mage-tanks', I've seen it done very well, recently in fact, but that should come with the offset of range. If they're using magical-melee, they're going to be short range fighters or hybrids, which always come with pros and cons. I know that mental fatigue is a thing, but what's the point of weakening your character if your opponent, a melee or range character for example, doesn't take physical fatigue? 'Rules' should be decided between the role-players. Trying to act like an authority is dumb.

23-Jun-2016 16:02:33

jagkilledme

jagkilledme

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Zrie said :
Role-Player said :
Mages, ideally, should be really weak in close combat, while they should be able to decimate at long range. Making like ... a mage-tank? Is OP, I think. I've no problem with 'mage-tanks', I've seen it done very well, recently in fact, but that should come with the offset of range. If they're using magical-melee, they're going to be short range fighters or hybrids, which always come with pros and cons. I know that mental fatigue is a thing, but what's the point of weakening your character if your opponent, a melee or range character for example, doesn't take physical fatigue? 'Rules' should be decided between the role-players. Trying to act like an authority is dumb.

Yeah, it's always awkward to see that people pushing for mage exhaustion comes mostly from melee RPers that can fight for hours. Where melee combat is concerned, exhaustion hits you pretty fast in an actual fight, which is why perfecting warfare and quick dispatch of opponents was such a big thing. Rangers are a bit harder because most of their problems come from back, shoulder and discomfort issues.

Going hybrid really does present its own series of downsides and people always have a preference between the two styles they're using.

There are ways to dual-class, so to speak, but it usually requires a complete merger where weapons are concerned, and a split for armor and abilities. Concessions are always made. Arcane archers (range/mage) and bladesingers (mage/melee) are a good example of efficient hybrids.

Where RS is concerned, tacking D&D classes onto NPCs and characters really isn't all that hard. Sliske, for example, would be a Shadowdancer. I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

23-Jun-2016 16:12:08 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2016 16:18:06 by jagkilledme

Lady Airlea
Mar Member 2011

Lady Airlea

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Hybrid armour is all-around effective, but comes with some easily exploited weakspots based off material. Most of my hybrids, for example, use pauldrons, bracers, a helmet, greaves, and either upper or lower metal armour on the chest. Reason being these are spots where you are most likely to have a sword, or arrow, successfully lop an arm, or puncture a vital. Otherwise leather, silk, and cloth is the way to go.

As for Mage Tanks, we know they exist. They're trading ability to strafe and move for more defenses. While not useful in RP combat between two humanoids as much, this is very useful for someone who fights large, hulking monsters where you need to survive a potential hit, but movement isn't as vital.

As for Shrap... (Most) Metal doesn't help or hinder casting. But there are much better alternatives for a mage to use that will help their casting, which is why any mage worth their salt is going to be wearing some sort of enchanted robes, especially over the standard metal variety. Exceptions existing, of course, for a few common sense pieces.

Big issue with any sort of standard people "should" follow though, is people who prefer magic rp gather in certain groups, and people who don't gather in others. Where the two rarely interact, and carry on their own ways anyway. It's why I had to my own standardization for The Countdown, because we needed a common, compromised ground for the varied bunches of RPers involved to agree on.
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The One True Nat
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23-Jun-2016 17:14:19

jagkilledme

jagkilledme

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Lady Airlea said :
Big issue with any sort of standard people "should" follow though, is people who prefer magic rp gather in certain groups, and people who don't gather in others.

Well, the problem of this thread isn't really pushing one type of RP over another; it's that it smacks of bias due to personal benefit. A thread like this emerging when two fairly big RP clans are at war usually doesn't bode well. Throw in something like "mithril is good for wizards" when there's no lore backing for it and when one considers that the Vekonites (or whatever they're called) all use Mithril makes it look pretty shady, at best.

As for mage tanks: why would they turn in the ability to strafe? That's one of the biggest staples of melee combat, and there's no reason why, of all things, you'd relinquish the ability to strafe. If anything, I'd say that if you're playing mage tank, that you don't do short range teleports. Kiting, which short range teles are pretty native to, goes against the whole purpose and spirit of tanking anyway.

I'd expect some kind of spellblade **** from mage tanks but I can understand that not everyone shares that sentiment.

What kind of gear you use as a mage mostly depends on what you're doing. If you're a court mage, you might go for some less comfortable and less utilitarian floor-length robes, whereas spellcasters that are adventurers or often at war probably favor split-robes because they're comfortable and easy to move in. I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

23-Jun-2016 18:25:15 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2016 18:28:37 by jagkilledme

Kara-Ara
Dec Member 2021

Kara-Ara

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Shrap said :
- Armor conducts magic. Do not be a mage in full armor, or you will fry yourself. Mithril is the only armor that is slightly good with magic, but even it doesn't take the entire conducting away.

I had a character who wore armor over robes. The armor itself was insulated from the magic itself, so the only issue was the weight and less movement speed as compared to bare robes.

Also, is it explicitly stated anywhere in lore that metal actually conducts magic? I always figured that was a gameplay element to balance melee from just destroying everything. "A silly ***** is what I'm going to call **** jokes from now on."
-Jen 2015

23-Jun-2016 19:27:25

jagkilledme

jagkilledme

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Lady Airlea said :
It's not a total trade off of strafing. You're limiting your ability to do so quickly with heavier armour. Typing this on my phone so it's harder to type and elaborate. My B.

**. Strafing really isn't a hard movement to accomplish. You're basically just sliding your feet along the ground.

Kara-Ara said :
I always figured that was a gameplay element to balance melee from just destroying everything.

It's just one of those things. Like how food heals you and that's technically canon but far too extreme: it's pushing that whole thing about how eating a little something when you're not feeling well helps you.

In game mechanics, armor is rigged a certain way. If you wear leather, your accuracy with melee and magic goes down, etc. But it's just that: a mechanic. Otherwise, you'd be able to wear the cheapest set in a tier and be a hero without any downsides. I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

23-Jun-2016 19:53:12 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2016 20:05:34 by jagkilledme

jagkilledme

jagkilledme

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How the combat triangle would actually work in RP:


Melee usually wins against ranged because: plate is pretty strong and puncturing it, depending on the armor, can be very difficult. A melee units shield is a great defense against rangers.

Melee can lose against ranged because: chainmail is vulnerable to stabbing attacks (arrows, bolts) and different arrow and boltheads can puncture armor. They're also slower, less mobile units because of their position on a battlefield.



Ranged usually wins against magic because: they're highly mobile units and can fire at mages safely from cover. Mages are very vulnerable to attacks because they wear little armor.

Ranged can lose against magic because: armored mages (elemental armor, combat robes etc) are not as vulnerable to attacks. Mages can also change environments at a whim or teleport.



Magic usually wins against melee because: they are highly mobile and can teleport at a whim, using distance to their advantage. Fire-based magic would be particularly useful against melee units because it would cause their armor to heat up and burn them, possibly gravely, and maybe even fatally.

Magic can lose against melee because: they are not equipped to go toe to toe with someone. Their usual attire does little to stop attacks and leaves them vulnerable to injuries.


Hybrids aren't mentioned for obvious reasons. I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

23-Jun-2016 19:59:52 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2016 20:12:19 by jagkilledme

Maurum

Maurum

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Shrap said :
- Armor conducts magic. Do not be a mage in full armor, or you will fry yourself. Mithril is the only armor that is slightly good with magic, but even it doesn't take the entire conducting away. The effects of magic mixing with metal are inconsistent. See: White staff, dragon staff, dragon ward, rod of Ivandis, battlemage armor, etc.
Except gold and elemental which seem consistently magic-positive.

23-Jun-2016 20:20:58

jagkilledme

jagkilledme

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Maurum said :
Shrap said :
- Armor conducts magic. Do not be a mage in full armor, or you will fry yourself. Mithril is the only armor that is slightly good with magic, but even it doesn't take the entire conducting away. The effects of magic mixing with metal are inconsistent. See: White staff, dragon staff, dragon ward, rod of Ivandis, battlemage armor, etc.
Except gold and elemental which seem consistently magic-positive.


White staff isn't actually metal. It's just a painted staff.

Rod of Invadis is special snowflake weapon made from a Silver/Mithril alloy topped with an enchanted sapphire and dipped into Paterdomus to enchant it with some extra holy magic ****. It's also only does one thing, and it's a melee weapon. Not even worth mentioning.

The Dragon Staff isn't made of metal either: it's a fire staff topped off with the carved head of a Dragon. It just looks fancy.

The Dragon Ward is a shield that looks like it functions in the same way as the DFS. It's a very special snowflake thing acquired from Muspah on Freneskae . Also out of the cards. Dragons are kool kids all around, as is Orikalkum.

Battlemage armor is just mage-tank gear. Nothing super cool there.

However, there's a bunch of enchanted armor or armor that was made with the help of magic. You just have to read the flavor text. 3rd Age Melee is a good example, along with Combat Armor, most of the T90 gear and some other ****.

At and by large though, cloth is best. Skillcapes are made from raharni longcat fur, which were hunted to near extinction because the fur was good for conducting enchantments. I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

23-Jun-2016 20:34:15 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2016 20:45:46 by jagkilledme

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