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Southeaster
Nov Member 2014

Southeaster

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Maynne said :
If there is no legislated law prohibiting an action, it is deemed legal.
While specific moral practices differ from culture to culture, there is a baseline fundamental level of morality that most humans and societies throughout time have practised.

Just because it's within the law to put someone in a concentration camp because that person happens to be born a different ethnicity, or to murder someone as long as he has narcotics in his possession, or to sell your daughters off as maidservants, doesn't mean that such acts ought to be condoned. Runescape Forumers Discord Server

04-Nov-2019 03:25:07

Dong U Dead

Dong U Dead

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Shiavui said :
Maynne said :
If there is no legislated law prohibiting an action, it is deemed legal. For sure.

Pigs have many uses, this just being one of hundreds. In the end, they are just a resource to be exploited.
Well then, lets just farm children, turn them into adults and use them as test dummies <- what's the difference?? Or maybe have test dummies of all ages...

Because they are pigs this type of cruelty is ok??

I am with Southeaster (page 2, post 2) on this one.
If fat means flavour then I'm ******* delicious!

04-Nov-2019 03:40:15

Maynne

Maynne

Forum Moderator Posts: 52,416 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Southeaster said :
Maynne said :
If there is no legislated law prohibiting an action, it is deemed legal.
While specific moral practices differ from culture to culture, there is a baseline fundamental level of morality that most humans and societies throughout time have practised.

Just because it's within the law to put someone in a concentration camp because that person happens to be born a different ethnicity, or to murder someone as long as he has narcotics in his possession, or to sell your daughters off as maidservants, doesn't mean that such acts ought to be condoned.

Tell that to the Chinese authorities, not me - how they treat their domestic farm animals are none of our business. I just expressed what applies legally, if it is not prohibited by Chinese law - it is allowed (that principle applies everywhere, a legislated law can prohibit an otherwise legal action). You just added an extra sentence that is red herring, the topic is about pigs - a domesticated farm animal.

04-Nov-2019 11:04:48 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 11:12:29 by Maynne

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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I guess then you think it'd be a matter of no consequence tying up a domesticated farm animal and torturing it slowly to death whilst the onlookers gamble on how long it'll take to die?
Or maybe a bunch of people eating it alive a bite at a time because they like raw meat?
So long as it's within Chinese law of course.

There's a difference between what's legal and what's acceptable behaviour.
Slavery and the abuse of those persons used to be legal until (most people) woke up and smelled the coffee, made a fuss and got rid of that particular bit of obnoxious legislation.

As someone already pointed out, there's absolutely no need to use a live animal for crash test purposes given the technology already available to do this which involves no form of suffering to any creature.

Having said that, it is not without precedent. America used chimpanzees extensively as crash test dummies (and other physical stress experiments) in the 1950s and 60s as part of their Air & Space Research programme.

I don't recall many people making a fuss about that - maybe because they had no other alternative technology to use at the time.
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04-Nov-2019 11:34:12 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 11:38:03 by FiFi LaFeles

Archaeox
Dec Member 2011

Archaeox

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FiFi LaFeles said :

As someone already pointed out, there's absolutely no need to use a live animal for crash test purposes given the technology already available to do this which involves no form of suffering to any creature.

Yet given that using dummies is cleaner, easier and a lot less hassle than using live pigs, clearly the experiment's designers disagree. I would guess that they were investigating damage to organs, which cannot be modelled using standard crash test dummies (because dummies don't have organs).

And despite the outrage expressed by various posters, and claims about what is acceptable and what is not, the fact remains that in Europe animal testing for various purposes still takes place as well.

Or how about using human corpses, which has been done in Europe and America?
See for example:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-11-25-mn-60691-story.html
('Auto Safety Crash Testing Ignites Furor : Germany: The program uses human bodies. U.S. tests using cadavers at 3 universities are disclosed.').

Or this more recent one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2474809/
('A Study of the Response of the Human Cadaver Head to Impact')?

Maybe the Chinese just didn't have access to a supply of stiffs....
~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

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04-Nov-2019 11:56:44 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 12:07:02 by Archaeox

Southeaster
Nov Member 2014

Southeaster

Posts: 15,318 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Maynne said :
Tell that to the Chinese authorities, not me - how they treat their domestic farm animals are none of our business. I just expressed what applies legally, if it is not prohibited by Chinese law - it is allowed (that principle applies everywhere, a legislated law can prohibit an otherwise legal action). You just added an extra sentence that is red herring, the topic is about pigs - a domesticated farm animal.
It's absolutely not a red herring. Your principle that as long as it's legal in that country, it's acceptable - that's what I take issue with.

By your logic, if a country suddenly legalised slavery, the rest of the world should just keep quiet about it and continue diplomatic relations with that country as if nothing changed. Runescape Forumers Discord Server

04-Nov-2019 12:20:43 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 13:10:19 by Southeaster

Southeaster
Nov Member 2014

Southeaster

Posts: 15,318 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Archaeox said :

Yet given that using dummies is cleaner, easier and a lot less hassle than using live pigs, clearly the experiment's designers disagree. I would guess that they were investigating damage to organs, which cannot be modelled using standard crash test dummies (because dummies don't have organs).

And despite the outrage expressed by various posters, and claims about what is acceptable and what is not, the fact remains that in Europe animal testing for various purposes still takes place as well.

Or how about using human corpses, which has been done in Europe and America?
See for example:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-11-25-mn-60691-story.html
('Auto Safety Crash Testing Ignites Furor : Germany: The program uses human bodies. U.S. tests using cadavers at 3 universities are disclosed.').

Or this more recent one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2474809/
('A Study of the Response of the Human Cadaver Head to Impact')?

Maybe the Chinese just didn't have access to a supply of stiffs....
They're not stealing the corpses from morgues, are they? A corpse can't feel pain, after all, if the bodies are donated to science then I don't see any issue with this.

As for animal testing in the West, I'm not free to look up sources at the moment, but I'm cool with animal testing as long as abuse doesn't take place. (e.g. the animals aren't put through unnecessary suffering) Runescape Forumers Discord Server

04-Nov-2019 12:22:58

Archaeox
Dec Member 2011

Archaeox

Posts: 53,399 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Southeaster said :
They're not stealing the corpses from morgues, are they? A corpse can't feel pain, after all, if the bodies are donated to science then I don't see any issue with this.
Ah, so as long as the pig is dead before being strapped in, it's ok? Got it.
~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

!! Slava Ukraini - heroyam slava !!

04-Nov-2019 12:27:07

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