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Southeaster
Nov Member 2014

Southeaster

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Archaeox said :
Southeaster said :
They're not stealing the corpses from morgues, are they? A corpse can't feel pain, after all, if the bodies are donated to science then I don't see any issue with this.
Ah, so as long as the pig is dead before being strapped in, it's ok? Got it.
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04-Nov-2019 12:29:43

Dong U Dead

Dong U Dead

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Archaeox said :


Maybe the Chinese just didn't have access to a supply of stiffs....
Apparently they harvest organs - we have protesters in our country from time to time handing out pamphlets on the subject - if they can harvest organs they can harvest corpses.
If fat means flavour then I'm ******* delicious!

04-Nov-2019 14:31:16 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 14:32:48 by Dong U Dead

Joel

Joel

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As many have already pointed out, something being legal does not necessarily make it acceptable or humane. There's plenty of unacceptable behaviour in the world and this is just unfortunately one example of it.

Before I read more into detail about this story in particular, I didn't even know it was China where this was taking place.

Quite frankly, the country where such things occur is irrelevant, it shouldn't happen regardless of where in the world it is and something being inhumane but legal should not be a reason to sit quietly and say nothing.
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04-Nov-2019 15:28:53

ToP BaSS

ToP BaSS

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Joel said :

Quite frankly, the country where such things occur is irrelevant

I understand what you are saying but not sure I can agree.
China is notorious for, at best ignoring - at worst lacking regulations on life welfare of both animals and humans.
If these types of barbaric incidence are reported world wide the outrage and backlash could impact on China's car export industry and subsequently all related industries such as steel and electronics for instance.
Not something I believe they would be too pleased about and may force some changes for the better.

04-Nov-2019 16:25:23

Shiavui

Shiavui

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Dong U Dead said :
Shiavui said :
Maynne said :
If there is no legislated law prohibiting an action, it is deemed legal. For sure.

Pigs have many uses, this just being one of hundreds. In the end, they are just a resource to be exploited.
Well then, lets just farm children, turn them into adults and use them as test dummies <- what's the difference?? Or maybe have test dummies of all ages...

Because they are pigs this type of cruelty is ok??

I am with Southeaster (page 2, post 2) on this one. Yes, because they are just pigs, I have no qualms with them being used in such a manner.

04-Nov-2019 16:44:49

Joel

Joel

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ToP BaSS said :
I understand what you are saying but not sure I can agree.
China is notorious for, at best ignoring - at worst lacking regulations on life welfare of both animals and humans.
If these types of barbaric incidence are reported world wide the outrage and backlash could impact on China's car export industry and subsequently all related industries such as steel and electronics for instance.
Not something I believe they would be too pleased about and may force some changes for the better.
Not quite sure what you're saying; Are you saying that if people spoke out and reported on these sorts of practices there would be backlash?

Surely that would be a good thing, to force a government, China or others, into acting and if they were not pushed enough previously to act then any backlash that hurts industry in terms of their profits for example would make them re-evaluate their positions. Let's face it, when the bottom line is impacted, they'll be much quicker to move.
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04-Nov-2019 16:53:22 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2019 16:53:48 by Joel

ToP BaSS

ToP BaSS

Posts: 19,464 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Joel said :
ToP BaSS said :
I understand what you are saying but not sure I can agree.
China is notorious for, at best ignoring - at worst lacking regulations on life welfare of both animals and humans.
If these types of barbaric incidence are reported world wide the outrage and backlash could impact on China's car export industry and subsequently all related industries such as steel and electronics for instance.
Not something I believe they would be too pleased about and may force some changes for the better.
Not quite sure what you're saying;
Are you saying that if people spoke out and reported on these sorts of practices there would be backlash?


Surely that would be a good thing, to force a government, China or others, into acting and if they were not pushed enough previously to act then any backlash that hurts industry in terms of their profits for example would make them re-evaluate their positions. Let's face it, when the bottom line is impacted, they'll be much quicker to move.

The reporting is already being done and must continue.
The kind of backlash I am referring to is that if consumers are made abundantly aware of what is happening they may think more carefully about their Chinese purchases. In this instance the car industry could be impacted by consumers with an animal welfare conscience.
These cars that have these animal testing are made in China and these days sold globally.

04-Nov-2019 23:58:35

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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Archaeox said :
FiFi LaFeles said :

As someone already pointed out, there's absolutely no need to use a live animal for crash test purposes given the technology already available to do this which involves no form of suffering to any creature.

Yet given that using dummies is cleaner, easier and a lot less hassle than using live pigs, clearly the experiment's designers disagree. I would guess that they were investigating damage to organs, which cannot be modelled using standard crash test dummies (because dummies don't have organs).

snip...

This is a possibility. However, there is technology for organ damage estimation available in non-biological crash test dummies:

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/can-crash-test-dummies-really-simulate-human-injuries2.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6257900/

Then there is THUMS which was first developed in 1997, with a basic FEM model of the human body. Bones and a face were added in 2004, and a brain model followed in 2006. The latest iteration allows damage such as liver distortion and heart bruising.

If a wealthy car manufacturer chooses to ignore these technologies and use live animals instead (because it's cheaper?) I would at least expect that they totally sedate the animal so that it feels no pain and then to euthanise it immediately after the crash has taken place. They don't need to keep it alive and suffering afterwards in order to assess it's internal organs, these can be removed and examined.
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05-Nov-2019 03:27:54

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