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Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Raleirosen said :
Neither can/could answer the question of where the Big Bang came from, which I'd consider to be the ultimate answer to where natural laws come from.
The Big Bang doesn't discount intelligent design. Nor does evolution. Even the Pope agrees with that.

I don't believe that we can ever understand who or what God is, at least not at our current level of consciousness.

And if it was the big bang that created everything, and set out the rules for the universe, wouldn't that make the big bang God?
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10-Sep-2017 01:03:49 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:05:40 by Nexus Origin

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Nexus Origin said :
But we don't have the answer right now?
So should we trash all of our current knowledge because of an anticipation that it might be disproved in 1000 years? That's stupid. Wait until we have evidence to contradict what we know now, then change accordingly.
Nexus Origin said :
It's hard to determine what level of intelligence our ancient ancestors had. They may have had knowledge that completely contradicts current teachings, based on things we have no way of comprehending with our current knowledge, and being 100% accurate and true.
Again, all speculation based on nothing. Such an extraordinary scenario would require some extraordinary evidence.
Nexus Origin said :
The Big Bang doesn't discount intelligent design. Nor does evolution. Even the Pope agrees with that.
Difference being that we have evidence for both the Big Bang and evolution, and none for intelligent design.
Nexus Origin said :
And if it was the big bang that created everything, and set out the rules for the universe, wouldn't that make the big bang God?
In a way, I suppose. But then you'd be attributing divinity to what would presumably be a natural event, which seems pretty pointless to me.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

10-Sep-2017 01:18:53 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:22:14 by Raleirosen

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

Posts: 21,010 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raleirosen said :
Nexus Origin said :
The Big Bang doesn't discount intelligent design. Nor does evolution. Even the Pope agrees with that.
Difference being that we have evidence for both the Big Bang and evolution, and none for intelligent design.
I suppose that would depend on what you consider "evidence". As far as I know, the big bang theory is simply based on background "noise" (microwave radiation) that couldn't be explained in deep space, which has since been explained as the theoretical "edge of the universe" expanding. I'm not sure that really counts as "evidence", does it? It's simply a theory to explain where this "noise" is coming from. It's not like we can actually "see" the edge of the universe.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great theory, but, it's still just a theory.

And it's not like anyone on earth can actually prove or disprove the theory. We have to simply rely on what people like NASA are telling us, and hope that they're telling the truth.

Raleirosen said :
Nexus Origin said :
And if it was the big bang that created everything, and set out the rules for the universe, wouldn't that make the big bang God?
In a way, I suppose. But then you'd be attributing divinity to what would presumably be a natural event, which seems pretty pointless to me.
I'm not talking about God in any religious sense, but only as the "creator" of the universe.
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10-Sep-2017 01:27:33 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:36:20 by Nexus Origin

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Nexus Origin said :
Don't get me wrong, it's a great theory, but, it's still just a theory.
It's a successful explanation/model that's sustained decades of peer review and is compatible with every branch of science. I don't know the intricacies but that's evidence enough for me.
Nexus Origin said :
And it's not like anyone on earth can actually prove or disprove the theory. We have to simply rely on what people like NASA are telling us, and hope that they're not still liars.
Technically no; you could devote the rest of your life to learning the science, the data, how everything fits together. But most of us have differing inclinations. So yes, we rely on the scientists; when they screw up, other scientists point it out and the theories are adjusted accordingly. It's a successful process.

I'm going to ignore the "liars" comment, just in case that leads to another rabbit hole.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

10-Sep-2017 01:42:45 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:44:47 by Raleirosen

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Raleirosen said :
I'm going to ignore the "liars" comment, just in case that leads to another rabbit hole.
I had edited it, but I suppose it wasn't quick enough, as you had read the post by then. :P

When it comes to things such as the universe, there are only a handful of people (or organizations) who are providing 100% of the claims and evidence, and we have to simply trust that they're being honest. Technically, they could be making up all kinds of things, just to keep their budget, meanwhile, they don't actually know any more than we do. But, because they get a almost 20 trillion dollars a year, they have to provide us with something, like pretty pictures of things that are millions of light years away that we have absolutely no way of verifying.

But yeah, let's not go down that hole right now. ^_^
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10-Sep-2017 01:52:18 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:53:28 by Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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I think our ancient ancestors knew a lot more than what we give them credit for, even when it comes to religion. We read religious texts today, and they talk about "sky gods" coming down from the heavens in giant steel birds, blowing winds and fire all around. Mainstream says that it's just metaphorical. But was it really? Or was it exactly as they had written?

There are so many things from ancient times that makes me wonder how many times we have had "visitors" from "the heavens"...
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10-Sep-2017 01:56:40 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 01:57:01 by Nexus Origin

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Nexus Origin said :
I had edited it, but I suppose it wasn't quick enough, as you had read the post by then. :P
I do that with pretty much every post I make, so no worries. :^)
Nexus Origin said :
When it comes to things such as the universe, there are only a handful of people (or organizations) who are providing 100% of the claims and evidence, and we have to simply trust that they're being honest. Technically, they could be making up all kinds of things, just to keep their budget, meanwhile, they don't actually know any more than we do. But, because they get a almost 20 trillion dollars a year, they have to provide us with something, like pretty pictures of things that are millions of light years away that we have absolutely no way of verifying.

But yeah, let's not go down that hole right now. ^_^
But my point is that technically you could verify it if you devoted a lot of time and effort to learning the science (or whatever field is making the claim). The issue is that only a few people are inclined to do so. Just a natural byproduct of society, I think. You're not going to have a lot of evidence to contest a DFA who's making claims about a work of literature you've never read, either.

There's a difference between not being able to verify something not having the time/inclination to verify something.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

10-Sep-2017 02:10:10 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 02:11:24 by Raleirosen

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nexus Origin said :
I think our ancient ancestors knew a lot more than what we give them credit for, even when it comes to religion. We read religious texts today, and they talk about "sky gods" coming down from the heavens in giant steel birds, blowing winds and fire all around. Mainstream says that it's just metaphorical. But was it really? Or was it exactly as they had written?

There are so many things from ancient times that makes me wonder how many times we have had "visitors" from "the heavens"...
It's possible (and cool to think about), but the overwhelmingly simpler explanation is that they either misinterpreted their experiences or made it all up (or both).
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

10-Sep-2017 02:14:05 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 02:15:32 by Raleirosen

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

Posts: 21,010 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raleirosen said :
But my point is that technically you could verify it if you devoted a lot of time and effort to learning the science (or whatever field is making the claim). The issue is that only a few people are inclined to do so. Just a natural byproduct of society, I think. You're not going to have a lot of evidence to contest a DFA who's making claims about a work of literature you've never read, either.

There's a difference between not being able to verify something not having the time/inclination to verify something.
I think the real problem with me trying to verify things in the universe is that I don't have a $500mil radio telescope. ;)
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McDelivery Now Available In Canada

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10-Sep-2017 02:16:08 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 02:16:46 by Nexus Origin

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Nexus Origin said :
I think the real problem with me trying to verify things in the universe is that I don't have a $500mil radio telescope. ;)
Alright, you can add money to the list. Though you could presumably get access to such a telescope for much less if you went through university (learning how to use telescopes and interpret the data obtained from them in the process), get a degree and followed through with an appropriate astronomical career. Education is expensive, but not quite hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars expensive.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

10-Sep-2017 02:19:49 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2017 02:22:30 by Raleirosen

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