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Ancient Drew

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I will admit that I've been a complete and utter dick towards you, and that's the truth. I didn't add you when you said before that I should, and I will now. I won't hold it against you if you don't add me, and I'll take every criticism you have to say without complaint. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

26-Jul-2017 22:05:23

Averia Light

Posts: 28,508 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Awesome041 said :
Averia Light said :
I like Raleirosen thooooooo

She challenges people, which isnt bad, but the less combative personalities may need a little support from time to time.

I feel like things are extremely polarized when Raleirosen is around.

Some posts are just so disagreeable. How can one who is knowledgeable equate atheism and agnosticism? Why does agnosticism have to be a knowledge-based decision, but theism or atheism can't be? Why can't agnosticism be as much a faith or belief based decision as anything else? Do you really think if one were to select from athiest, agnostic, or theist on a form, one can say why that is the case? Apparently and accordingly, it is intellectual laziness not to assert a position, but if one does, they are still wrong, yet it is not intellectual laziness to make bad assumptions. Let's be real here, thinking all religions can be free to practice is ludicrous. As long as some acts are illegal, people will not be free practice those acts, and before one comes along and misconstrues what I said, I am not talking about murdering humans in rituals; I mean simple things like using plants in ceremonies are a problem with which one has to deal. Nonetheless, I suppose you hang around with someone long enough eventually one will find something disargreeable.

Edit: Spelling.

Shrugs

I just like her is all. Yet again, I typically like such personalities. And I swear I'm not going to let her know all the pain I have known

26-Jul-2017 22:12:02

Averia Light

Posts: 28,508 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ancient Drew said :
I will admit that I've been a complete and utter dick towards you, and that's the truth. I didn't add you when you said before that I should, and I will now. I won't hold it against you if you don't add me, and I'll take every criticism you have to say without complaint.

You are allowed to be an utter dick towards someone.

And I swear I'm not going to let her know all the pain I have known

26-Jul-2017 22:12:32

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ancient Drew said :
I will admit that I've been a complete and utter dick towards you, and that's the truth. I didn't add you when you said before that I should, and I will now. I won't hold it against you if you don't add me, and I'll take every criticism you have to say without complaint. I think we can reach some sort of reconciliation in-game, then. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

26-Jul-2017 22:14:12 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2017 22:16:23 by Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Awesome041 said :
How can one who is knowledgeable equate atheism and agnosticism? Why does agnosticism have to be a knowledge-based decision, but theism or atheism can't be? Why can't agnosticism be as much a faith or belief based decision as anything else? Do you really think if one were to select from athiest, agnostic, or theist on a form, one can say why that is the case? I'll respond to this here since jumping to another thread can be annoying, and it's a welcome change of topic.

Agnosticism states that the existence of deities or any other supernatural thing can't be known. I would guess that most people are agnostic, if you press them a little; in my experience it's rare to meet a theist or an atheist who'd insist that they know God is or isn't real, since the next logical step is to ask them to prove it, which they can't do. Therefore agnosticism can't be a faith-based belief, because it rests on an absence of knowledge. Nobody takes it on faith that there is no way to prove God or gods exist, they simply acknowledge the reality of it because it's never been done.

Atheism and theism are different because they take a position on the existence of deities/the supernatural; it's not about whether you can know if gods exist, it's whether you think they exist. The reason why atheism remains a statement of knowledge in an agnostic context is because you aren't taking anything on faith when you infer an absence from an absence of evidence: because there is no evidence for the existence of the supernatural, to the best of our knowledge it doesn't exist. To contradict that and believe anyway, faith has to enter the equation, hence theism becomes faith-based in an agnostic context. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

26-Jul-2017 22:46:08 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2017 23:06:31 by Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Awesome041 said :
Apparently and accordingly, it is intellectual laziness not to assert a position, but if one does, they are still wrong, yet it is not intellectual laziness to make bad assumptions. The reason why I say it is intellectually lazy to identify as agnostic is because you aren't answering the crucial question of religion, which is: do you believe? All you're saying is that you don't know, which as I mentioned previously most people already acknowledge. Either you don't understand what's being asked or what your answer means, or you understand both and you're intentionally dodging.

As for being wrong... essentially, "agnostics" don't answer the question, while theists give the wrong answer. They're both wrong, just in different ways. I generally respect theists more, though, since chances are they've thought about the topic of religion a bit more than a self-identified agnostic. Also, theism actually has a historical track record, at least some of which is good, whereas agnosticism on its own is just sort of... up in the air.

Meanwhile, no bad assumptions (if any) are made with agnostic atheism, the least dogmatic and most correct religious position of them all. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

26-Jul-2017 22:46:35 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2017 23:20:29 by Raleirosen

Awesome041

Posts: 1,345 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Maybe I am stupid. I guess I can't understand why agnosticism can't be a statement of the belief one cannot know. I don't understand why people have to be wrong, nor what is gained from inciting or discouraging people that they are wrong no matter which choice or assertion one makes or accepts. And it sounds like an opinion to me as to whether assumptions are bad or which position is most correct ... Why do you believe all religions can be free to practice, Raleirosen? And what would you call someone who can know God, gods, or supernatural exist or who can know they do not exist?

27-Jul-2017 03:13:00

Awesome041

Posts: 1,345 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Maybe I am stupid. I guess I can't understand why agnosticism can't be a statement of the belief one cannot know. I don't understand why people have to be wrong, nor what is gained from inciting or discouraging people that they are wrong no matter which choice or assertion one makes or accepts. And it sounds like an opinion to me as to whether assumptions are bad or which position is most correct ... Why do you believe all religions can be free to practice, Raleirosen? And what would you call someone who can know God, gods, or supernatural exist or who can know whether one can know they do not exist?

Edit: Double post, but leaving here because website said there was an error.

27-Jul-2017 03:14:46 - Last edited on 27-Jul-2017 03:16:52 by Awesome041

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Awesome041 said :
Maybe I am stupid. I guess I can't understand why agnosticism can't be a statement of the belief one cannot know. I don't understand why people have to be wrong, nor what is gained from inciting or discouraging people that they are wrong no matter which choice or assertion one makes or accepts. And it sounds like an opinion to me as to whether assumptions are bad or which position is most correct ... Why do you believe all religions can be free to practice, Raleirosen? And what would you call someone who can know God, gods, or supernatural exist or who can know whether one can know they do not exist? For agnosticism to be a "belief," one would have to prove that they know God's existence for a fact, which would require further proof of God's existence. Nobody has ever done that. If someone were to say that they can know, I'd tell them to publish their proofs and change the world.

As for religious freedom, I'm not sure exactly what you're responding to. All religions can be practiced freely up to a certain point, when they violate laws or other principles. Just because there are limits doesn't mean there's no such thing as freedom of religion. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

27-Jul-2017 04:42:36

Awesome041

Posts: 1,345 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Raleirosen said :
Awesome041 said :
Maybe I am stupid. I guess I can't understand why agnosticism can't be a statement of the belief one cannot know. I don't understand why people have to be wrong, nor what is gained from inciting or discouraging people that they are wrong no matter which choice or assertion one makes or accepts. And it sounds like an opinion to me as to whether assumptions are bad or which position is most correct ... Why do you believe all religions can be free to practice, Raleirosen? And what would you call someone who can know God, gods, or supernatural exist or who can know whether one can know they do not exist? For agnosticism to be a "belief," one would have to prove that they know God's existence for a fact, which would require further proof of God's existence. Nobody has ever done that. If someone were to say that they can know, I'd tell them to publish their proofs and change the world.

As for religious freedom, I'm not sure exactly what you're responding to. All religions can be practiced freely up to a certain point, when they violate laws or other principles. Just because there are limits doesn't mean there's no such thing as freedom of religion.

There may be some degree of freedom for some to practice some of the time, and I understand there are practical and legal issues, but if there are limits, it is not absolute, is it? (This is with respect to religion, but I suppose the limit abstraction could be applied to freedom in general.)

27-Jul-2017 06:31:20

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