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Jesse B77

Posts: 16,070 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Theres never going to be any work in human history thats going to appeal to every single person. I think thats an unrealistic standard to hold something to.
Sides, I would say that 'masterpiece' and masterpiece are two differing things if you get what i mean. One is a personal perception, one is a collective perception, and when it comes down to what people rank anime its always the first one.

PS- who is the 'we' you refer to? Was that even targeted at me, cause I didn't really get what you were referencing.

27-Jun-2011 08:06:49 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 08:08:24 by Jesse B77

h6h67h67h

Posts: 951 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You cant watch a show like Ahohana by just watching it on a screen and staying detached from it. Even if you dont invest your emotion to the point were your going to cry at the ending, you still need to invest enough to understand WHY the CHARACTERS would.
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Don’t assume that those who did*’t buy into Anohana were all unwilling to connect to the characters. I actually really like the first episode and a lot of other episodes. I felt for Anaru, Tsuruko, and sometimes Jintan. But Menma really ruined the show because it revolved around her. IMO, Anohana suffered because it often had to conform its tone and dialogue to Menma, a 14-15 year old, who acts like a 5 year old. I KNOW that she’s supposed to be stuck in her childhood mentality, but she was at least 8 years old when she died. There’s no excuse for Menma to be that badly written. It’s not hard to understand the character’s emotions/motivations, but it is difficult to accept them as not contrived.
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For example, do they see Yukiatsu as a cluster of lines and pixels who has a weird fetish and conforms to the 'love to hate' trope, or do they see him as an individual with his own thoughts and motivations who's burdened by his own ghosts of the past?
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Yeah, I kind of do see Yukiatsu as the standard “troubled good/bad guy.” Yet, I wouldn’t have a problem with that if he was fleshed out. Unfortunately, the writer limited him to shouting matches with Jintan and nightime shots of him sniffing reminders of Menma. I’ve cried in Clannad and Clannnad After Story and teared up in Cross Game and Bokura ga Ita (and I’m not even up to episode 10 in this one). So Anohana had a lot of chances to give more meaningful dialogue instead of tripe, clichéd monologues and montages. Those opportunities were squandered.

27-Jun-2011 08:26:28 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 08:34:43 by h6h67h67h

Jesse B77

Posts: 16,070 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I never even got the impression that the story was revolving around Menma at all. I always got the impression that it was more about the other characters and how they were all connected/motivated by Menma, as opposed to it being Menma herself. I mean, you could have actually removed Menma from the 'present' in the story entirely, and still told the same tale to equal effect.
Also, i never said anything about unwillingness to connect to the characters. I find that people can usually identify with at least one character, but if they fail to give them 'life', then they just stay as lines on a screen, 2D objects about which the viewer has to be fed information rather than thinking about and looking for it themselves.
As for the thing with Yukiat*u, this is the reason i never go into a show and attach labels to things. You get stuck in a rut only seeing the aspects of the character which conform to the label, and become unable to realise the character as an individual. In this case, i think the onus was on the 'reader' as opposed to the 'writer' in terms of finding motivation and thought process.

27-Jun-2011 08:50:34 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 09:00:44 by Jesse B77

h6h67h67h

Posts: 951 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Numerous plotholes were present due to the weaknesses of Menma's character. And I don't mean Menma was the main character...she just took up a lot of unnecessary screen time, and the characters had to do/say a lot of CLICHED things to remain in their largely 1 dimensional attachments to Menma. I strongly believe that she single-handedly prevented the show from achieving classic status.

27-Jun-2011 09:07:25 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 09:09:41 by h6h67h67h

Jesse B77

Posts: 16,070 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Acknowledge, accept, ignore. 3 steps to a better anime viewing

. But you've got me interested now, what plotholes did you find that where a result of Menma's supposed lack of characterization?
Plus, cliche only becomes prevalent when you start labeling. While some actions taken have been seen before, is any person truly, wholly, original? While I saw such things, i never got any impressions of carbon copying, nor did I feel any requirement for the links between them to be particularly complicated.

27-Jun-2011 09:27:34 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 09:31:15 by Jesse B77

h6h67h67h

Posts: 951 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Menma could have just written in the diary or at the very least moved an object (interacted with the environment) at the beginning to show she was real. She could have showed her mom she was real. She could have told them that she wanted them to get along. She could have told them so many other things...I'll think of more later. What kind of killed the show for me was when I noticed these things. It's more frustrating than disappointing.
Sure the word cliche is becoming cliche, but some things are definitely cliched. I wouldn't care if the story remained the same (cuz the core plot is actually good), but the way it was presented was often over the top and predictable. When the plot progresses just like a myriad of other animes, then it definitely becomes cliched. BUUUT, even then I wouldn't have cared if the character interactions were better. But after like the first 3 episodes, the characters stopped really interacting...but just talking about the same things over and over again.
Yeah, I'm sleepy right now so I cba to elaborate more.

27-Jun-2011 09:52:20 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 09:55:33 by h6h67h67h

Jesse B77

Posts: 16,070 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ah yes. I had wondered about that first point myself, as i too thought that was a little strange. Even despite the fact that she originally didn't have the dairy on hand to write in, i had wondered why she didn't do something in order to make her presence known.
Whether thats something of her personality, the design of some sort of circumstance or just a spot of bad writing, im not sure. If we analyzed it, Im sure we could come up with a case for each. But assuming it was bad writing which resulted in a plot hole, im not sure that could be directly attributed to Menma's characterization so much as a flaw in the progression of the plot.
Cliche in character interaction and story progression, im in some ways inclined to agree and in some ways not. Some is not all, if you know what i mean. Some interactions and plot progression was cliche or able to be predicted, and yet some of it was not.
Either way, i dont see how this can be attributed to Menma's characterization, nor can i understand how it is sufficiently lethal to the enjoyment of the whole show, which no doubt comes down to a difference of standards and viewing habits.

27-Jun-2011 10:20:56 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 10:21:34 by Jesse B77

Apr

2013

TechEngineer

Forum Moderator Posts: 13,998 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Jesse B77 posted:
Acknowledge, accept, ignore. 3 steps to a better anime viewing

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I totally agree on that.

Sure, I saw those plotholes too when I was watching, but in the end I just ignore them so that it doesn't make the show any less enjoyable to me.
I'm willing to overlook those mistakes when I also see many good things about this show.
In case of Astarotte no Omocha, there weren't any good things to be found after all. It was very boring, especially the second half. I'm glad that it's over and I don't know why I started watching this.
Leaving on a positive note, The World God Only Knows II was enjoyable just like the first season. But WHY did they have to end with a filler episode AGAIN?

Well I have to admit I had to laugh everytime Yokkyun turned around and showed her ugly drawn face. And the reference to The Girl Who Leapt Through Time was also great. Despite the fillers I will be looking forward to the 3rd season and I hope it will have an opening as good as the first two.

27-Jun-2011 21:10:15 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 21:11:43 by TechEngineer

May

2006

Zuriel

Posts: 3,587 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Started watching Myself;Yourself. Apparently it's similar to Kanon, and I do see a resemblance between the two in the overall storyline, so hopefully it will be a good series. About a third of the way through it so far, and it's great. I just hope it stays this good.

3 more days until the final Gosick episode. Can't wait

27-Jun-2011 22:43:51 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2011 22:44:20 by Zuriel

NeverEnd 51

Posts: 17,245 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Leaving on a positive note, The World God Only Knows II was enjoyable just like the first season. But WHY did they have to end with a filler episode AGAIN?

Well I have to admit I had to laugh everytime Yokkyun turned around and showed her ugly drawn face. And the reference to The Girl Who Leapt Through Time was also great. Despite the fillers I will be looking forward to the 3rd season and I hope it will have an opening as good as the first two."
And here I thought I was the only one who cared for The World God Only Knows series.

Yeah, I expected a filler ending but it was much better than the first for the simple reason it gave the preview of Tsukiyo, another girl who I don't seem to recognize because I probably went over that chapter (lol), Rieko, Sumire, and Tenri. To be honest, I am probably looking forward to Sumire and Tenri the most because I liked their captures best out of the bunch. If only real life was like this, sigh...
I can see the ending, but I can't see the beginning to season 3. Which will be out around...the next winter season probably?
Edit: AND DONT YOU DARE MAKE FUN OF YOKKYUN,

lol

28-Jun-2011 07:16:49 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2011 07:21:30 by NeverEnd 51

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Jesse B77

h6h67h67h

Jesse B77

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Jesse B77

h6h67h67h

Jesse B77

TechEngineer

Zuriel

NeverEnd 51