RuneScape Forum Archive | Desert Quest Series

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Only read this if you have complete the

Desert Quest

Phite Club .

So during the Phite Club Quest Osman becomes Pharaoh, reuniting the line of Senliten (also called the

Chosen of Tumeken

) of with the throne of Menaphos - effectively achieving ones of the key aims of the entire Desert Quest series. Yet when talking with

Senliten

afterwards there is no post-Quest dialogue. Which is odd because she has such dialogue for Dealing With Scabaras , Do No Evil , Crocodile Tears , and lastly Our Man in the North in which she says "Osman knows he must come to see me before he can progress his plans any further. We shall get through to him."

Then during Phite Club Osman says "The proof of my lineage, along with information Senliten has provided me since my, ahem, exile, has been enough to secure a number of new allies on this side of the wall." Basically he is saying that he had that long-awaited conversation with Leela and Senliten and got the information, yet, again, there is no post-Quest dialogue in which this is acknowledged. Speak to Senliten and all that is available is the post-Quest dialogue from the previous Quests. This is a rather startling oversight and should be corrected (unless it is part of some surprise for the next Desert Quest in the series, of course.)

On that note, it is high time that the Desert Quest series be continued, as it is the last unfinished Fifth Age plotline and has several mysteries left to tie up. To start, did Leela and Senliten "get through" to Osman? Seeing how the former Spymaster dealt with the old Pharaoh, literally stabbing him in the back with a dagger after he peacefully yielded, I have some doubts.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

23-Apr-2020 18:54:18

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Furthermore the Phite Club ended with the revelation that Tumeken is in fact alive and that the Kharid-ib is "a remnant of Tumeken's essence." Indeed, the jewel glows and Tumeken briefly possesses Jabari and the two thralls to speak to Amascut - urging his daughter not to give in to her own anger and to stop her plans. Naturally the Devourer pays no heed, disavowing being Tumeken's daughter and swearing to continue her plans

The jewel's words infuriate her who denounces being Tumeken's daughter and refuses to listen to his warnings and swearing to continue her plans. Plans which seem to involve the Soul Altar, the Kharid-ib (which we still have get back), and Scabaras - the one member of the Children of Tumeken (Menaphite Pantheon) we have yet to meet and cleanse. In short and despite Osman's ascension, we are far from finished in the Desert.

Also, there remain two rather large mysteries that need answering. Why is the

Kharidian Desert

seemingly exempt from the

Edicts of Guthix

? Recall that this is a Fifth Age storyline, yet we deal no less directly with the Desert Deities than we do Saradomin and Zamorak in the Sixth Age. Why? A question which ties into the next mystery: What is the history of Tumeken and

Elidinis

beyond that they arrived on Gielinor early in the Second Age and, according to legend, the met on the bank of the River Elid and married shortly thereafter? They are the only married deities we know of and their children - Icthlarin, Amascut, Scabaras, Apmeken, Crondis, and Het - are the only divinely born gods aside from Zaros and Seren. Is this why the Edicts did not effect them? Because they were born on Gielinor or because they are demigods

These questions need answering, these issues and loose ends resolved, so I propose a return to the
Desert Quest series
.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

23-Apr-2020 19:22:59

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't think there is an "oversight" with Senliten's dialogue. It has a lot to do with bringing back Tumeken rather. That's right, Tumeken is not dead and the dead Queen wants to keep her mouth shut until the right moment. A lot of my theories regarding Tumeken and the Zarosian Desert War as well as the mystery of Karid-et can be found here:

Quick find code: 16-17-998-66143293

We can actually see from the Menaphos quests that Amascut is "not" really the Amascut before she met Mah. I believe she is under the effect of the mysterious "corruption", perhaps in the Hand of some powerful being or that could even be the 6th Elder "God" Zaros mentioned. I have a theory on lengthy posts over different forums too on this one... but for now I'll just leave it aside.

As for why the desert pantheon is not affected by the Edict of Guthix, the answer can be really simple - the desert has always been in the good peaceful hand. Remember Guthix was able to keep Gielinor in peace only because of the Stone of Jas... but the Stone of Jas is not the only Elder Artifact. Now that if some other beings like Tumeken in the 2nd Age could do what Guthix did in the 3rd Age, only with the equivalence of a Stone of Jas, then the desert obviously did not need Guthix and his Edict. This theory is actually the most logical one or otherwise there would be logically no chance Tumuken was able to stop the Zarosian Desert War all by himself.

23-Apr-2020 21:52:00

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
I don't think there is an "oversight" with Senliten's dialogue. It has a lot to do with bringing back Tumeken rather. That's right, Tumeken is not dead and the dead Queen wants to keep her mouth shut until the right moment. A lot of my theories regarding Tumeken and the Zarosian Desert War as well as the mystery of Karid-et can be found here:

Quick find code: 16-17-998-66143293

We can actually see from the Menaphos quests that Amascut is "not" really the Amascut before she met Mah. I believe she is under the effect of the mysterious "corruption", perhaps in the Hand of some powerful being or that could even be the 6th Elder "God" Zaros mentioned. I have a theory on lengthy posts over different forums too on this one... but for now I'll just leave it aside.

As for why the desert pantheon is not affected by the Edict of Guthix, the answer can be really simple - the desert has always been in the good peaceful hand. Remember Guthix was able to keep Gielinor in peace only because of the Stone of Jas... but the Stone of Jas is not the only Elder Artifact. Now that if some other beings like Tumeken in the 2nd Age could do what Guthix did in the 3rd Age, only with the equivalence of a Stone of Jas, then the desert obviously did not need Guthix and his Edict. This theory is actually the most logical one or otherwise there would be logically no chance Tumuken was able to stop the Zarosian Desert War all by himself.

All good points, though I do not think your theory as to why the Desert Pantheon is not affected by the Edicts holds up. Remember, Guthix insisted even that Seren leave Gielinor and by the admission of both (Seren's words and Guthix's memories) they were in love. That, and one cannot find a more peace-loving deity than Seren - keeping the Elves out of the God Wars and free even of internal conflicts until she shattered herself. No, there is another reason why the bau of Tumeken was unaffected by the Edicts.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

23-Apr-2020 23:14:59

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Ian Adler

Let me point out there is an arguably much more powerful Elder Artifact than the Stone of Jas - the Horn of Quin.

Why is it more powerful than the Stone? Simple. It doesn't destroy anything just to get rid of them. It is used to communicate with the minds of other creatures and render them incapacitated.

Jas told us Guthix found the Horn and had it hidden in the 2nd Age, but she gave no reason why and when in the 2nd Age. Now suppose Tumekan either found the Horn, or Guthix gave it to him, and he used it to control all the Zaorsian Mahjarrat among other creatures to end the Desert War without shedding a drop of blood except killing all the demons... he then went to sleep with the Horn just like what Guthix did in the 3rd Age. Also, don't forget Kharshai lost his memory but why? Aha! The Horn did the trick perhaps.

Well, nobody needed to leave the plane because if Desert War broke out again, Tumeken would return with the horn and incapacitate the trouble makers again, Seren and other powerful gods which wouldn't be powerful under the spell of the Horn, included. And now in the 6th Age after the "corruption" claimed Amascut and the Pharoah is the time for the 2nd coming of Tumeken again, perhaps with the Horn...

But there is a small problem as the Horn was apparently found by an Easterner pirate in the 5th Age, so other than returning Tumeken to Gielinor, the desert folks may have task to find the Horn too.

23-Apr-2020 23:51:21 - Last edited on 24-Apr-2020 00:03:21 by Dilbert2001

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Praetor's Log 3 gives some insight that may be valuable in answering why the minor desert gods (Scabaras, Apmekan, Het, and Crondis) appear to have been exempted from the edicts (I always assumed Icthlarin and Amascut were exempted due to their roles in Gielinor's afterlife especially since Amascut wouldn't have gone full mental yet).

It tells of how the Zarosian Empire used a diamond to contain the soul gem of a mahjarrat strongly aligned with the element of shadow (presumably the shadow diamond from Desert Treasure and indicating a similar origin for the other 3 diamonds in that quest). Importantly, said diamond was said to be based off of the 'Heart of Tumeken' (presumably the Kharidian Ib) and had the ability to corrupt humans over time.

This indicates a similarity between Tumeken and the Mahjarrat that can be extrapolated to potentially explain things.

1: The Kharidian Ib functions like an amped up version of the Shadow Diamond, able to fully possess humans almost instantly.

2: The Mahjarrat are not quite godly imitations of Zaros and Seren. When Seren shattered herself, one of her shards ended up singing itself into Eluned, a being with memories and identity distinct from Seren but in the form of Haluned (an alias a shard of Seren used whilst exploring/spying).

Given that Tumeken seems to be functioning like a godly version of the Mahjarrat, it's not absurd to propose that he's much like Seren when it comes to the minor desert gods. As such, I find it likely that prior to Tumeken's self detonation, said minor gods were just shards of him that could rejoin the greater whole at any point (much like Haluned). Post-detonation, however they appear to have reconstitutes themselves from his remains without memory of what they once were (much like Eluned).

So why weren't Scabaras, Apmekan, Het, and Crondis affected by the Edicts? I'd propose that they didn't exist when the Edicts went up and only reconstituted from Tumeken's remains afterwards.

24-Apr-2020 17:38:06

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :

So why weren't Scabaras, Apmekan, Het, and Crondis affected by the Edicts? I'd propose that they didn't exist when the Edicts went up and only

A point to be considered though, from Missing My Mummy, Senliten said:

"Scabaras cleanses mind and body through solitude. His followers are always deep thinkers, coming to conclusions tempered by lack of distractions. If you wish for a life of study, you can do no better than to follow his ways. By the example of the dung beetle we learn that the unpalatable may be transformed into life through proper attitudes."

But we also know Senliten died during the Zarosian War in the 2nd Age. The fact that she knew Scabaras possibly means Scabaras, and therefore his siblings existed in the 2nd Age which was obviously before Guthix's Edicts went up.

24-Apr-2020 18:52:56 - Last edited on 24-Apr-2020 18:53:33 by Dilbert2001

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I explained that in my post. I'll try again:

Seren makes Haluned in the 2nd age. Tumeken makes Scabaras, Crondis, Apmekan, and Het in the 2nd age.

Seren recombines with Haluned and blows herself up at the end of the 3rd age (note: Seren repeatedly split Haluned from herself and reabsorbed her since Haluned's initial creation). Tumeken detonates in the 2nd age (assuming the parallels hold true, this was after reabsorbing Scabaras, Crondis, Apmeken, and Het).

In the 5th age, a fragment of Seren sings itself into the same form of Haluned thought without the memory and develops its own identity as Eluned. Assuming the parallels hold true, 4 fragments of Tumeken shape themselves into the forms of Scabaras, Crondis, Apmekan, and Het assuming the roles of their original incarnations either by retaining some degree of memory (due to being a larger chunk, much like the Dark Lord and Seren) or by being recognized by the populace as part of the pantheon (they are distinct in appearance) who then brought the gods up to speed with their roles.

24-Apr-2020 19:25:28

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
I explained that in my post. I'll try again:

Seren makes Haluned in the 2nd age. Tumeken makes Scabaras, Crondis, Apmekan, and Het in the 2nd age.

Seren recombines with Haluned and blows herself up at the end of the 3rd age (note: Seren repeatedly split Haluned from herself and reabsorbed her since Haluned's initial creation). Tumeken detonates in the 2nd age (assuming the parallels hold true, this was after reabsorbing Scabaras, Crondis, Apmeken, and Het).

In the 5th age, a fragment of Seren sings itself into the same form of Haluned thought without the memory and develops its own identity as Eluned. Assuming the parallels hold true, 4 fragments of Tumeken shape themselves into the forms of Scabaras, Crondis, Apmekan, and Het assuming the roles of their original incarnations either by retaining some degree of memory (due to being a larger chunk, much like the Dark Lord and Seren) or by being recognized by the populace as part of the pantheon (they are distinct in appearance) who then brought the gods up to speed with their roles.

I don't know if Tumeken created Scabaras and the other 3 demigods from his fragments. At this stage, it is more plausible that these 4 "creations" came of of his DREAMS subconsiously don't have much to do with Tumeken himself, much like Mah's creations don't seem to share any characteristics, bondings and memories with their mom.

24-Apr-2020 20:08:34

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
@Ian Adler

Let me point out there is an arguably much more powerful Elder Artifact than the Stone of Jas - the Horn of Quin.

Why is it more powerful than the Stone? Simple. It doesn't destroy anything just to get rid of them. It is used to communicate with the minds of other creatures and render them incapacitated.

Jas told us Guthix found the Horn and had it hidden in the 2nd Age, but she gave no reason why and when in the 2nd Age. Now suppose Tumekan either found the Horn, or Guthix gave it to him, and he used it to control all the Zaorsian Mahjarrat among other creatures to end the Desert War without shedding a drop of blood except killing all the demons... he then went to sleep with the Horn just like what Guthix did in the 3rd Age. Also, don't forget Kharshai lost his memory but why? Aha! The Horn did the trick perhaps.

Well, nobody needed to leave the plane because if Desert War broke out again, Tumeken would return with the horn and incapacitate the trouble makers again, Seren and other powerful gods which wouldn't be powerful under the spell of the Horn, included. And now in the 6th Age after the "corruption" claimed Amascut and the Pharoah is the time for the 2nd coming of Tumeken again, perhaps with the Horn...

But there is a small problem as the Horn was apparently found by an Easterner pirate in the 5th Age, so other than returning Tumeken to Gielinor, the desert folks may have task to find the Horn too.

Your theories regarding the Elder Horn are intriguing, yet I do not see how it relates to the Desert. Thus far the Elder Artifacts have remained a Sixth Age story element while the Desert firmly Fifth, and there have been no indications that that is going to change. Before Guthix dies our character is barely even aware of the existence of the Elder Gods and is utterly unaware that the Stone of Jas has counterparts. In fact, the Desert Questline is one of the most isolated stories in the game.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

25-Apr-2020 00:50:09

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