RuneScape Forum Archive | Desert Quest Series

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The POP story came out before The World Wakes. Obviously, Jagex released lore of the Horn before the 6th Age.

Again, the Horn being in the Eastern Land in the 6th Age doesn't mean it could not be somewhere else. Note that the Stone of Jas was first known to the Fremmenik that V found it in their region, but it obviously had traveled far far away to many many different places because of people like Movario and Sliske.

28-Apr-2020 16:12:08

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
The POP story came out before The World Wakes. Obviously, Jagex released lore of the Horn before the 6th Age.

Again, the Horn being in the Eastern Land in the 6th Age doesn't mean it could not be somewhere else. Note that the Stone of Jas was first known to the Fremmenik that V found it in their region, but it obviously had traveled far far away to many many different places because of people like Movario and Sliske.

As I just said, Quin got hold of the Horn in approximately year 149 of the 5th Age and then proceeded to use it, instigating the aptly named Quin conflicts :

The Whaler: "Discord said that Quin could control ALL sea monsters at once. She used an ancient horn to wake them, control them, and send them after her opponents."
The Assassin : "Tens of thousands died. Quin won, but the sea monsters were greatly reduced, which is the only reason we can travel between islands. After the war, so many wanted Quin dead. The Khans of the other islands petitioned the Death Lotus to kill Quin, but the order of assassins was unwilling to risk Quin's wrath, for fear of failure."

We aided in the successful assassination of Quin in year 169 of Fifth Age or 1 of the Sixth Age. Which date has never been confirmed, but it even it is 169 of the Fifth my previous point remains: Quin died in The Pincers region, which is well over half the Wushanko Isles away from the Desert. A long way and through many greedy hands for the Horn to travel. Hard to imagine other Seasingers, the Death Lotus, and the all the myriad other political and arcane Eastern forces letting such a powerful item slip through their collectives hands so easily. After all, Quin was hardly discreet and knowledge of the Horn and its power was not a secret.

I double checked all this info on the official Wiki. The Horn spent the Fifth Age in the East.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

28-Apr-2020 17:04:43

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Quin found the Horn (149 day of the 5th Age), obviously it was before the 6th Age (170 after the 1st day of the 5th Age).

Again, how can you tell the Horn wasn't in the Desert in Tumeken's possession in the 2nd Age?

Sliske died with the Stone of Jas outside Fremmenik in the 6th Age too, and it is incredibly obvious it didn't mean a thing to the Stone of Jas being found in Femmenik by V before the 3rd Age.

28-Apr-2020 17:24:23

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
Quin found the Horn (149 day of the 5th Age), obviously it was before the 6th Age (170 after the 1st day of the 5th Age).

Again, how can you tell the Horn wasn't in the Desert in Tumeken's possession in the 2nd Age?

Sliske died with the Stone of Jas outside Fremmenik in the 6th Age too, and it is incredibly obvious it didn't mean a thing to the Stone of Jas being found in Femmenik by V before the 3rd Age.

I cannot tell that Tumeken did not have the Horn in the Second Age, but I CAN positively say that there is no indication whatsoever - not even the vaguest hint - that he did. To believe otherwise is purest speculation without evidence. (And do not use V finding the Stone in Fremmenik lands as a counterpoint because we both know that Guthix took the Stone and placed it in that temple under Lumbridge, guarded by the Balance Elemental. Elder Artifacts are many things, but capable of independent movement is not one of them. They must be moved.)

We know that Guthix found the Horn in the First Age and then hid it, along with the other Artifacts in his possession, before going to sleep at the beginning of the Second Age. Hence it is far more likely that Guthix hid the Horn in the Wushanko Isles and Quin simply found it - the same way V simply found the Stone. This is speculation too, I grant, but it is educated speculation based firmly on known facts about the Horn. What truly happened to the Horn between Guthix hiding it and Quin finding it we literally have no idea because it has never once been touched upon in any way, shape, or form.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

28-Apr-2020 18:05:46

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Ian Adler

Of course we are talking about speculations and theories in this Future Game Update forum. Nothing is "known fact" or else we should be talking somewhere else.

Again, Marimbo found the Horn obviously in or before the 3rd Age before Quin found it in the 5th Age. Marimbo is known to the monkeys in the Ape Atoll, not the Wushanko, the Eastern Land wasn't even found before people began to travel in the 4th Age. There goes your specification Guthix hid the Horn in the Wushado.

If it wasn't because of the Horn, can you give us your speculations on how Tumeken was able to end the Desert War all by himself? Why did he go MIA and presumed dead with the hundreds of Mahjarrat? Why did Kharshai lose his memories? Why were the Desert Gods not affected by the Edicts of Guthix?

28-Apr-2020 18:48:44

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
@Ian Adler

Of course we are talking about speculations and theories in this Future Game Update forum. Nothing is "known fact" or else we should be talking somewhere else.

Again, Marimbo found the Horn obviously in or before the 3rd Age before Quin found it in the 5th Age. Marimbo is known to the monkeys in the Ape Atoll, not the Wushanko, the Eastern Land wasn't even found before people began to travel in the 4th Age. There goes your specification Guthix hid the Horn in the Wushado.

If it wasn't because of the Horn, can you give us your speculations on how Tumeken was able to end the Desert War all by himself? Why did he go MIA and presumed dead with the hundreds of Mahjarrat? Why did Kharshai lose his memories? Why were the Desert Gods not affected by the Edicts of Guthix?

More likely that Marimbo found the Horn in the Wushanko Isles, lost it as she said she did, and then Quin found it aeons later. So no, my speculation is still strong as ever.

Also, I still do not see how you connect the Horn to what Tumeken did. The Sun God literally blew himself up, of near enough, yet the basis of the Horn's ability is to communicate and impose one's will on another; which is why Quin (a Seasinger) was capable of controlling armies of sea monsters. This makes sense seeing as originally the Horn was an early mouthpiece the Elder Gods used to communicate with and control the TokHaar, since it was not possible for them to use their own voices without eviscerating everything in their vocal range. A initial purpose which, again, fits right in with how Quin later used it. I ask again: How does Tumeken's near-suicidal blast connect to this at all?
(Please read the official Wiki article on the Horn.)

As to why the Desert Gods were not affected by the Edicts of Guthix, this is literally one of the questions I mentioned in my first post that began this thread. I have no idea, but nothing suggests the Horn was involved.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

29-Apr-2020 16:49:59 - Last edited on 30-Apr-2020 03:51:16 by Ian Adler

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Ian Adler

Once again, how did Marimbo find the Horn in the Eastern Land before the 4th Age? Don't forget Gielinoreans didn't start to travel until the 4th Age. They didn't even discover Karamja until the 4th Age when they began to sail, and they only found the Arc in the 5th Age. Besides, why aren't there any sign of Marimbo in the Eastern Land if she is even known to the people there? Please don't avoid answering this question before go on with discussion.

Tumeken "blowing up hismelf" is totally not in the lore. The only living witness - Kharshai only saw Tumeken turned into fire and he never saw he killed anything at all. And again, don't dodge the question how Tumeken all of a sudden became so powerful and killed all the Zarosians all by himself. Don't forget the desert gods sought help from the Mahjarrat because they were no match to Zaros. Tumeken alone without any powerful allies or artifacts couldn't possibly kill all the Zarosians plus the hundreds of Mahjarrat who turned against him. Again, please don't dodge this extremely important question, if you really want to have an entertaining and educated discussion.

29-Apr-2020 17:47:52

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
@Ian Adler

Once again, how did Marimbo find the Horn in the Eastern Land before the 4th Age? Don't forget Gielinoreans didn't start to travel until the 4th Age. They didn't even discover Karamja until the 4th Age when they began to sail, and they only found the Arc in the 5th Age. Besides, why aren't there any sign of Marimbo in the Eastern Land if she is even known to the people there? Please don't avoid answering this question before go on with discussion.

Fair point about Marimbo, but only because we both forgot her lore. When asked about how she became a goddess she answers: "You know what? I can't remember. I have a strange dream sometimes that I was just an average giant monkey in a vast jungle full of giant monkeys. I can't remember the name of the place, but the whole world was a jungle, and giant monkeys like we were in charge. We weren't smart or anything. We were just animals. Swinging in trees, eating each other's lice. The usual. Then one day I just 'woke up'. There was a statue nearby that turned out to be a dead god. And a huge, empty wine barrel. Someone later told me he was a god of hedonism too. He was on a trawl of different worlds, challenging mortals to drinking contest for a bit of lark. So when he found out about a world of giant monkeys he went there in a flash, grabbed me and started dishing out the booze. It's a pity I never got to know him. Everything I found out was from his followers, who were all in mourning. So I thought 'Marimbo, let's cheer these guys up', and called for more wine. Everyone perked right up once we cracked open a new barrel, I can tell you. It's a shame I lost that drinking horn. The Fancy one with all the sparkles. I wonder where it went?"

So she didn't travel to the East to find the Horn. She was just an average non-sapient gorilla. I believe that answers your question, and I would further guess that she lost the Horn in the East. The Wiki agrees with me.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

30-Apr-2020 04:11:38

Jan

2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 532 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
@Ian Adler

Tumeken "blowing up himself" is totally not in the lore. The only living witness - Kharshai only saw Tumeken turned into fire and he never saw he killed anything at all. And again, don't dodge the question how Tumeken all of a sudden became so powerful and killed all the Zarosians all by himself. Don't forget the desert gods sought help from the Mahjarrat because they were no match to Zaros. Tumeken alone without any powerful allies or artifacts couldn't possibly kill all the Zarosians plus the hundreds of Mahjarrat who turned against him. Again, please don't dodge this extremely important question, if you really want to have an entertaining and educated discussion.

I have never dodged your questions and am well aware that exactly what Tumeken did that fateful day is something of a mystery. Why do you think I want to Desert Quest series continued but to answer that and other mysteries? That is literally the point of this thread. I simply do not see how the Horn fits in because Tumeken having/using it is not consistent with anything else we know about the Horn; not about how it works nor where it was and is. If you want an entertaining and educated discussion then explain how in Guthix's name the Horn connects to Tumeken.

Saradominist

World Guardian

emeritus
My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor. My second is to the patron of the Myreque.
My third is to

Tumeken

and the bloodline of Senliten.

30-Apr-2020 04:18:46 - Last edited on 30-Apr-2020 04:21:18 by Ian Adler

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Ian Adler

I still don't get your stance on Marimbo. Do you now see that she could have found the Horn in continental Gielinor in the 2nd Age but not the East in the 5th Age as you speculated? A reminder though, I didn't forget the lore like you claimed. Re-read Post 5 on Page 2 again please, what you wrote on Marimbo's ascension was exactly what I wrote there. Another reminder, there is no evidence of any sign of Ape Atoll equivalence in the East, not even a monkey bone or monkey hair is either found or mentioned anywhere in the Eastern Land in fact.

Which part did you not understand how the Horn works and Quin used it to control the minds of the sea creatures? Why couldn't Tumuken did the same to the Zarosians, wipe out their memories like Kharshai and commanded them to go back to Kharid-et and sleep there?That fits perfectly what the memory of Kharshai told us - no dead remains except ashes which Tumeken and Mahjarrat wouldn't drop, no sight of anything including Tumeken, and he lost his memory. And how did Guthix connect to it? Quite simple, he wanted to end the Desert War in the 2nd Age as much as he did to the God War in the 3rd Age. So he gave Tumeken the Horn or told him where he hid it. Don't forget from Tears of Guthix we knew he cried about the scourged desert but the God War didn't take part in the desert so Guthix is absolutely connected to the desert before the 3rd Age God War. What Guthix did in the 3rd Age to end the God War could just be deja vu of what Tumeken did in the 2nd Age to end the Desert War.

30-Apr-2020 04:50:18

Forums

Desert Quest Series