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Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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What they did with slayer was so that they could add more mobs with more mechanics, even though the new slayer mobs slowly reach the same difficulty level as like the lower tier in game bosses and even GWD1 bosses.
Afterall, your T85+ Slayer creatures before the update included Dark Beasts, Abyssal Demons, and Airut. The T95 "elite mobs" from Runelabs weren't quite what players were expecting.

I'm for rebalancing the existing Summoning content somehow rather than just upping it to 120.
Plus raising Summoning has a similar argument to raising 120 combat: we don't have much in game right now that warrants the raise.

Yes, we've steadily seen stronger combat mobs and bosses added into the game.
But players who have "mastered" some of the higher end bosses are having an easier and easier time with Telos, Arraxi, Vorago, etc ... even virtually soloing some of the "group bosses" ... and that is with T90-92 gear.
You can imagine how much easier it would be for them with T99 or higher.

Adding in higher tier summoning familiars would have a similar issue.
More DPS or more storage for food for bosses.
Higher efficiency rate for gathering skills when we've had so much added in that between Invention, Outfits, potions, and auras, you're already at a decent rate.

Yet at the same time, how many variants of familiars are completely ignored?
How many familiars have redundant or useless abilities?
We have gaps for skilling familiars (ie: several mining and fishing, but only 1 for woodcutting).

We need to have the existing familiars rebalanced, and even a few be considered for removal (or at least useless effects removed).
Or having something done to make it so players aren't using just the same 5-6 familairs.

09-Feb-2019 23:03:17

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

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Tom Grey said :
New slayer mobs with different drops are not content. Lack of ideas at Jagex for 120 gap also does not justify the minuscule amount of work they did to take a bunch of existing monsters and recolour them green and black.
Oh wow, its almost like I, and many others, have brought up ideas to fill up the gaps for the new levels so that we won't run into this problem.

Tom Grey said :
And unless you have been living under a rock urek, 120 skills are required for comp cape. So don’t bs us with that, oh you don’t have to do it.
You're not forced for maintain the cape. Don't wear it if you don't want to keep up with the reqs. Don't bs us with all that, oh you're forced to. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

10-Feb-2019 11:08:31

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Deltaslug said :
Adding in higher tier summoning familiars would have a similar issue.
More DPS or more storage for food for bosses.
Higher efficiency rate for gathering skills when we've had so much added in that between Invention, Outfits, potions, and auras, you're already at a decent rate.
Oh wow, someone should make a thread on familiar ideas that have more niche uses and unique abilities instead of straight upgrade from lower level ones. Oh wait, I've done that already.

Deltaslug said :
Yet at the same time, how many variants of familiars are completely ignored?
How many familiars have redundant or useless abilities?
We have gaps for skilling familiars (ie: several mining and fishing, but only 1 for woodcutting).
WYM redundant? They're lower level so that players without the summoning level to use the higher ones can use them. Calling them redundant is like calling bronze sword redundant because elder rune sword +5 exists.

Deltaslug said :
We need to have the existing familiars rebalanced, and even a few be considered for removal (or at least useless effects removed).
Or having something done to make it so players aren't using just the same 5-6 familairs.
Rebalancing and raising skill cap don't have to be mutually exclusive. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

10-Feb-2019 11:12:16

Tom Grey

Tom Grey

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Deltaslug said :
What they did with slayer was so that they could add more mobs with more mechanics, even though the new slayer mobs slowly reach the same difficulty level as like the lower tier in game bosses and even GWD1 bosses.
Afterall, your T85+ Slayer creatures before the update included Dark Beasts, Abyssal Demons, and Airut. The T95 "elite mobs" from Runelabs weren't quite what players were expecting.

I'm for rebalancing the existing Summoning content somehow rather than just upping it to 120.
Plus raising Summoning has a similar argument to raising 120 combat: we don't have much in game right now that warrants the raise.

Yes, we've steadily seen stronger combat mobs and bosses added into the game.
But players who have "mastered" some of the higher end bosses are having an easier and easier time with Telos, Arraxi, Vorago, etc ... even virtually soloing some of the "group bosses" ... and that is with T90-92 gear.
You can imagine how much easier it would be for them with T99 or higher.

Adding in higher tier summoning familiars would have a similar issue.
More DPS or more storage for food for bosses.
Higher efficiency rate for gathering skills when we've had so much added in that between Invention, Outfits, potions, and auras, you're already at a decent rate.

Yet at the same time, how many variants of familiars are completely ignored?
How many familiars have redundant or useless abilities?
We have gaps for skilling familiars (ie: several mining and fishing, but only 1 for woodcutting).

We need to have the existing familiars rebalanced, and even a few be considered for removal (or at least useless effects removed).
Or having something done to make it so players aren't using just the same 5-6 familairs. Well said.

10-Feb-2019 12:02:17

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

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Tom Grey said :


If you think 504 levels is content, then go for virtual cape. No one is forcing you not to.

And unless you have been living under a rock urek, 120 skills are required for comp cape. So don’t bs us with that, oh you don’t have to do it.

i already have all virtual 120 capes. well i dont have them all but i can buy them all.

however if they werent capped at 99 but 120 instead it would have been different training methods as to how i got here. (aka different content) see how that works to make it content?
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
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10-Feb-2019 19:35:33 - Last edited on 10-Feb-2019 19:36:17 by Tenebri

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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@UrekMazino
I'm aware of your suggestion thread. I should note that you are not the only person to have suggested new ideas for summoning familiars ... regardless if they are rebalanced variants of existing familiars or ones added for 100-120.

I should also note that in the end, any additions to the game are solely dependent on Jagex devs. Some ideas may be used, some discarded for being "OP", others discarded because they aren't technically feasible, others discarded because while they could be done thy just don't seem practical or are duplication of other in game effects or are better used as a space for a reward using a different mechanic.

Frankly, Jagex may even opt to do a completely different mechanic for 100-120 then what we currently have. (You could still train pouches using Steel Titans and Geyser Titans, but they use an entirely different method for the new familiars).

Whatever case they use, you'll run into:
- players ranting about how 100-120 uses a new mechanic that doesn't feel right
- players lamenting that their large stacks of existing familiars and scrolls are now worthless (same as the after effect of the M/S rework)
- players just complaining about how they now have to train 90 million XP to reach the cap on the skill because a part of their psyche says they have to because the game has the 120 and they have some subconscious need to reach that
- ... or because now to do end game content, they absolutely have to have the 120 to grind out so their familiars now actually help them because Yaks/Mammoths don't carry enough and Steel Titan DPS don't do squat anymore because Ultra-Hard Mode Vorago's defense rating is too high.

10-Feb-2019 19:49:03

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Like I think I said before, we have limitations on the number of ways to train Summoning.

Right now, it's just make massive amounts of pouches. Sure you can dump other unfixed XP rewards on it, but that's really the only way to "train" it.
Even then:
- citadel summoning plot has a weekly cap (effectively a D&D that requires you to be in a clan and citadel high enough tier)
- Familairization indirectly helps with Charm Collection or shaving costs of secondaries (Even then, materials given are random and might not be useful at your current level)

And that's it .......

How you get charms is also heavily combat focused.
Your only other options are:
- Do Hunter with Charm Sprites, Charm Moths, and the occassional Charming Imp
- A few thru chests in Cave Goblin city
- Trisk Key (but effectively requires elite level content and still a 1/11 or 1/13 chance of getting ~ 200 charms)
- Pickpocket Amlodd (technically still requires combat via quests to unlock priff)
- Soul Wars which is virtually dead content outside of Spotlight ... and even then at times
- Fire Spirts (Again, small number) from bonfires

Skillers would need 2-3 more semi reliable ways to get charms that aren't locked behind combat content or having to go into the Wilderness.

In addition, some of the Summoning Familiars would also be locked out from skillers.
Obsidian Charms from TzHaar can only be earned from Combat, thus locking out Obsidian and Lava Golems
Abyssal Charms from Abyssal Creatures (not Lvl 85 Slayer) are locked out preventing the use of Abyssal Creatures to carry essence.

10-Feb-2019 19:58:07

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

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Deltaslug said :
@UrekMazino
I am aware of that, which is why your original statement baffled me, but thanks for explaining yourself more clearly, and I can now agree on a number of points you've made. Some of the issues you've raised, such as the ones where there will inevitably be people whining about the increase in skill cap. I'd say its the players' problems, this kind of player mentality shouldn't hinder game progression of others.

Of course, it would be nice to find a solution that can also keep those crybabies happy. But what I really don't understand is how these comp players can have 120 slayer but not enough charms for 120 summoning. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

11-Feb-2019 00:42:35

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Not every creatures drops charms.
Not every task would end up with a number of charm drops relative to the Slayer XP output.
Some people speed run thru tasks not picking up stuff (including charms).
Not everyone uses a charming imp. Those that do are more likely to destroy charms. Again, that output isn't comparable to Slayer XP earned.
Slayer, again, has more ways to train over Summoning (how many Slayer xp rewards out there for things like Bork, Phoenix Lair, God Statues, Champion Challenges, Skeletal Horror, Rush of Blood). Even quests favor Slayer over Summoning.

Plus, we found out about the concept for 120 Slayer back in mid-late 2016. So players had close to a full year to work on 120 Slayer for the Menaphos/120 Slayer releases.
And we're closing in on the 2 year mark for the skill up to 120.
The idea for 120 Summoning wasn't really floated until 2018.

11-Feb-2019 02:06:41 - Last edited on 11-Feb-2019 02:08:01 by Deltaslug

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