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Rituals are bad game design

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Abby Taylor said :
@Dilbert

because my thread is about rituals not combat. I'm specifically giving my opinion on the flaws of ritual training.

Necromancy is a combat skill. Ritual is designed to be a bonus way to train a combat skill without engaging in combat. It is intended as such all the way and all the Jmods have told us in all kinds of livestreams and BTS Newsletter.

The RS3 Jmods, who designed and implemented Rituals, never intended it to "to be more relaxing and afk " as you think. Their design and intention is crystal clear when they add in random events that we absolutely can't be AFK with.

09-Aug-2023 19:18:28

Bertel62
Aug Member 2023

Bertel62

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Dilbert2001 said :
Necromancy is designed for both combat and non-combat. How is it bad design when the likes of OP who loves the combat aspect can just play through the combat aspect of necromancy?
OP is complaining that A is bad, and you keep saying "then do B instead". How is that going to make A better? A is still bad no matter how much you do B. You are just trying to avoid the problem.

09-Aug-2023 20:12:50

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bertel62 said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Necromancy is designed for both combat and non-combat. How is it bad design when the likes of OP who loves the combat aspect can just play through the combat aspect of necromancy?
OP is complaining that A is bad, and you keep saying "then do B instead". How is that going to make A better? A is still bad no matter how much you do B. You are just trying to avoid the problem.

Jagex didn't not design A as what OP misinterpreted. Simple as that.

09-Aug-2023 20:16:22

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Dilbert

"Necromancy is a combat skill. Ritual is designed to be a bonus way to train a combat skill without engaging in combat"

it's not a bonus way to train the skill, it's required to unlock combat abilities and required for multiple quests. You have to do communion rituals to 3,000 souls to do multiple quests, and to complete the well for the final quest.

It's not some bonus minigame, it's a core function of this ""Combat"" skill that you are required to participate in to utilize necromancy to even half of it's usefulness.

But I wouldn't complain about rituals if the materials were not designed in a way that you have to do lower rituals to get materials for medium rituals and you have to do medium rituals to get materials for higher rituals.

It's basically one small favor, or the chain of deals trope gamified, but what makes it bad should be fairly obviously, one of the key elements of the chain of deals trop is that it is ANNOYING.
The characters involved are always irritated by having to make successive trades.
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

09-Aug-2023 20:26:03

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
^^
Your
supposition
that Ritual is "more relaxing and afk" is wrong already. Jagex never intended rituals to be "more relaxing and afk" than what it is now. The incredibly clear point I pointed out is they added random events and multiplication glyphs for us to get more xp for less AFK. They absolutely don't intend rituals to be what you "supposed" them to be.

We have already gone through the part on using lower level ingredients for higher level rituals. I told you it has been the same thing, or actually far more complex mechanism with making overloads from super potions. Why is it not a good design that we have enjoying for like 15 years?

09-Aug-2023 20:29:07 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2023 20:34:27 by Dilbert2001

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anybody rave about how fun making overloads is.

When people say "I love overloads", They are talking about the benefits they get from the potion itself, NOT the process of creating them.
This is the kind of logic that you frequently fail to grasp I've noticed.

Just because it's not ""supposed"" to be one way doesn't mean its good.

Rituals weren't designed to be AFK or relaxing? okay fine, then they are just bad and SHOULD BE
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

10-Aug-2023 00:24:39

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Abby Taylor said :
Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anybody rave about how fun making overloads is.

When people say "I love overloads", They are talking about the benefits they get from the potion itself, NOT the process of creating them.
This is the kind of logic that you frequently fail to grasp I've noticed.

Just because it's not ""supposed"" to be one way doesn't mean its good.

Rituals weren't designed to be AFK or relaxing? okay fine, then they are just bad and SHOULD BE

What skilling is fun then? I heard more players telling us skilling is grinding and not fun, but this is what all Jagex's Runescape games were designed. So?

Such old school grinding skills design has never been fun in 2023, but it doesn't mean it is bad design because this is what MMORPG are designed.

Using lower tier ingredients to make higher tier ones is actually a very good design for the economy. It keeps low tier ingredients useful and retain their value. Besides, please tell us how much more fun is when we use other resources to make overload instead of the lower tier ones? Nothing at all. It is still the same tedious grinding.

10-Aug-2023 01:01:16 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2023 03:37:00 by Dilbert2001

Astrovite
Jul Member 2023

Astrovite

Posts: 11 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Abby Taylor said :
Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anybody rave about how fun making overloads is.

When people say "I love overloads", They are talking about the benefits they get from the potion itself, NOT the process of creating them.
This is the kind of logic that you frequently fail to grasp I've noticed.

Just because it's not ""supposed"" to be one way doesn't mean its good.

Rituals weren't designed to be AFK or relaxing? okay fine, then they are just bad and SHOULD BE

-Lol so true. I feel like the way rituals work makes perfect sense from a lore(?) point of view.
the concept of "Necromancy" in general almost always involves some kind of rituals and magic. Not just exclusively summoning the dead to fight for you. Like I know it's not a real thing but having the rituals makes it more realistic to the concept of necromancy. When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.-Jimi Hendrix

10-Aug-2023 23:38:40

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