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NUKED Alchemisers?!?

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Nexus Point
Jul Member 2008

Nexus Point

Posts: 197 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You did it AGAIN Jagex!!! Another update...another unannounced NUKING!!!

Logged in today to the Fort Forinthry update -- no big deal, updates happen all the time. Sometime later, I noticed a stash of coins in my bank that came out of nowhere -- hmmm. With your track record, all I can think is: "What did they get rid of this time?" Since there was nothing in the Patch Notes that seemed to fit, it was time to investigate...

Well, I found out -- my Alchemisers (L72 Invention) have been nuked -- no longer in the Invention Guild; no option to build them at the hot spots. All I can hope is that since the coins ended up in my bank that the items and runes also went to the bank.

I can only pray that this was a mistake or that you will explain why you nuked them.

But I'm not holding my breath ;(.

14-Feb-2023 04:59:00

Nexus Point
Jul Member 2008

Nexus Point

Posts: 197 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
They introduced an hard cap of 2, because they don't want players to place a 3rd mk 2 one into the guild - since the increased energy cap from the fort would allow you to do this. Obviously they haven't considered players also are using the low levelled ones in conjunction.

But all in all - that was intended.

Thank you for the information; it is most appreciated.

[FOR JAGEX]
If what you say is true, I still see several problems that I've come to expect from Jagex:

- If they want to limit Mark IIs, then limit Mark IIs; don't trash existing legal configurations (and yes, I did have 2 of each prior to the update since you couldn't have 3 Mark IIs). The energy cap was the limiter of machines - if you increase the cap, you know what you're getting into. (BTW, what's wrong with having 3 Mark IIs?)

- No warning about an update side effect. What part of the Fort Forinthry update shouts: "We are about to nerf Invention machines"? Since the nerf is an integral part of the update, one might think a warning ahead of time is in order. Maybe something along the lines of "Your Yak Coins are about to disappear" message"?

- Little/No documentation about the change after the fact. You just log in, find some strange items in your bank, and are left to wonder where they came from. The update and patch notes don't seem to mention the nerf or explain the "banking" of the nuked alchemiser contents.

This is just the latest stealth nuke from Jagex (I remember when they nuked Brilliant alchemist's amulet fragments with little/no warning).

Jagex: Please learn the lesson and give heads up/documentation for these kinds of updates.

14-Feb-2023 08:17:11

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Their intent is to fight inflation, since alching (rank 3) and especially the alching machines (rank 1) are among the biggest drivers of gp generation right now, so they didn't wanted to extend the potential of players for this regard (that's why no 3rd machine). An indirect effect probably is fewer coins being generated right now - but as said I am not really sure if this was intended (thus why no warning) - it's entirely possible (since you've received a refund for the machine and its contents), it at least wasn't planned at the time they talked about inflation, but I think they'll nod it off as some side effect now.

You can read it in detail in this blog post: https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=100/c=mrCjkW3ldZg/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death

I can't confirm it for myself, since I hadn't had a setup like this, but someone said, they have refunded the materials used in the construction of the machines, as well as everything, that currently was processed by them. I also do not know if some one-off message was given in the login clutter for that matter - if it was it easily can be missed But all in all - no damage was caused, except for forcing you to diversify your assets now.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

14-Feb-2023 08:45:03 - Last edited on 14-Feb-2023 08:47:28 by Rikornak

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

Posts: 2,634 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Rikornak

I'm dying from laughter at how dumb this sounds on jagex's part.....limit alchers or don't, has no in-game fight against inflation.

i'll let you and jagex in on a secret....

--
The only way to fix inflation is lower the amount of alchables as even this machine limit will just have people....oh yeah alch it the normal way before these were even added to the game. And the ship sinker......alch value is what keeps many items from tanking;

Alch market control - falls under alch + alch costs = alchers buy it, price goes up due to demand, profit low, they find another item.

Machine or not....These items will get alched, limited machines won't effect it.....TBH i only use the machines for dino hides from Big Game Hunting. I can alch items while i walk, a lot faster than those machines and time even visiting those machines was only deemed worth it with dino hides to me.

---

Also in-case no one can look ahead if alchables were removed, everything near alch value will tank in value.

so basically all this anti-inflation stuff won't do anything and they can't do anything as the above states. Whats next? limit to how often we can cast high alch spell per day? Altscape is looking good....and markets will still crash as demand falls.

Design of the game, can't change it sadly. Economics in this game are in huge trouble...inflation is the least of jagex worries, maybe try to fix the true reason for it (too many high value items used as currency like how mint cakes were :P )

15-Feb-2023 12:14:10

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am totally with you, that items will eventually be alched one way or another, but with fewer machines available, this process will happen slower (a bit under 6 hours precisely for players who used that setup) - since manual alching isn't exactly among the most fun (and for more than enough players profitable) things you could do in this game - and that's the reason why those machines generate 4 times as much gp as the spell does - which by itself already generates a lot - but we're talking about 45 % vs. 12 %. And the machines certainly aren't as available to basically everybody as the spell would be - or the spell actually can alch way more than the machines if you're willing to do so. That assumes the numbers given are correct, but since nobody else could confirm it I'll give them the benefit of doubt, since it sounds conclusively enough to me.

Yeah as said, it'll potentially have two effects - either players will let them alch over a longer span of time (which obviously will reduce the amount of coins generated on any given day - that daily basis is actually important, since it will take longer to generate the same amount of gp) - or they start alching the difference manually (as said - I can't imagine, that everybody with that specific setup suddenly will start doing so - the effort to throw those things into the machine just is way lower). And yeah - players who just had had those two mk. 2 are not affected at all by this change.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

15-Feb-2023 13:11:10 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2023 13:27:49 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And welp - going by their original intent (literally what they said) - preventing players to build a third mk. 2 machine was not about reducing inflation. It just was about not firing it up even further - which certainly would have happened if it was allowed. That they actually removed existing machines without upgrade will reduce it - intent or not.

Reducing the amount of alchables won't even closely be as impactful as you may think, since every given player only can alch 1200 (instead of potentially 1586) items per day with their machines now anyway - and as said - those are used much more than the spell. How would you even want to achieve this, alchables aren't just dropped, but also created en masse with skills. Yeah obviously - removing alching entirely would have an effect, but this spell certainly does exist for a reason - to ensure some floor value for a lot of things, that would be worthless otherwise. More skills going the route of smithing in conjunction to reducing alch fodder dropped would have impact.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

15-Feb-2023 13:16:01 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2023 13:25:03 by Rikornak

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,757 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It seems to me if you are running any more than 1 machine for alching, then you are probably buying items to alch for the small amount of profit available.

I doubt anyone would do that manually, and if they did, it would stop them from gaining money in other ways.

Can people still get high alch price from that store in the wild? Destroy that if so. Get out Jagex's famous new bulldozer and just make a parking lot.

I'm sure there are players who make a ton of crafting items to alch, but again the question did they buy those materials for a small amount of profit? Would they follow through on the next step of manually alching all that?

15-Feb-2023 13:32:22

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roddy Piper said :
I'm sure there are players who make a ton of crafting items to alch, but again the question did they buy those materials for a small amount of profit? Would they follow through on the next step of manually alching all that?


That basically happens when you want to level those skills - unless you're using methods, that are there to destroy things (like burial armour - which is the reason why smithed armour is rather sold to other players than alched like we did pre-rework - smithing runite was profitable to sell and even moreso to alch then). Crafting certainly is comparable when it comes to produce alch fodder for instance - always was.

A dragonstone bracelet is worth around 8800 gp in the GE, with its raw materials being worth around 7200 right now. Alched it will generate 11475. And yeah in theory you also could enchant it, to sell or alch it for even more, but at least in RS3 that's really not worth the effort for those few additional gp - and magic can be levelled simpler than back in the day. And a lot of crafted alch fodder looks similar.

If it's worth one's time if they can do more profitable methods certainly is something different, but somehow you need to max out those skills after all.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

15-Feb-2023 13:41:20 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2023 13:45:42 by Rikornak

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