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Hello, fellow Clan Leaders! (Too long, didn't read?)

Within this thread, I wished to address some of the issues with which my community has struggled - and with which many other communities have struggled, I am sure. More specifically, I wished to address common grievances with the current capping infrastructure, and then spend a few paragraphs briefly* outlining two distinct proposed solutions to these issues in the posts below. (* = At least, it is my intention to do so briefly.)

Additionally, allow me to preface this post by mentioning that I am rather new to the Clan Leaders Forums, so, if the contents herein articulated have been mentioned or expounded upon elsewhere, I would like to ask for your forgiveness in advance.

Allow me to begin with the issues at hand. Although, admittedly, there are several issues with the capping infrastructure which could be discussed, I would like to raise three general concerns which encompass a broad array of complexities in and of themselves:

1. The diversification of resources, while an attractive and sensical element of Citadel upkeep design, is often a hindrance or burden for growing communities to bear.

Though this might sound exaggerated, it is my hope that at least some of you will find this to be the case. The division of resource gathering into ten different resources localized at skill plots appears to beget a conflict of interest between two different functions of the Clan Citadel: the Clan Citadel as a skill training center and the Clan Citadel as a place for communities to gather, to build together, and to call their own. Generally, this diversification propounds an issue which is often solved by the selfless members who willingly give up their opportunity to cap and more "valuable" skilling plots (such as the Loom or the Furnace) in order to achieve build orders requiring Rations (made at the Barbeque) or Charcoal (forged at the Kiln). With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:19:49 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 02:39:07 by Audx

However, I consider this compromise to be unnecessary. Whether or not a community has members who will do so gladly, it appears to me to be a counterintuitive consequence of this design choice.

I find this to be more problematic currently within communities that focus toward recruiting members who are presently engaging in end-game content (and, thus, are often owners of Max capes, Completionist Capes, or Trimmed Completionist Capes); especially communities which have just recently been founded, whose new members have not inherited a t7 Citadel. The prospect of being forced to begin capping with Timber as your only resource is exceptionally discouraging, predominantly as few members within high-level communities require any more Woodcutting experience to reach skill mastery. The same may be said for high-level communities further along in their development; few members require Mining, Firemaking, Woodcutting, or Cooking experience - and thus these plots tend to be the most frequently neglected, and often the hardest from which to acquire resources. Minions help, but they are often insufficient unto themselves in smaller communities with a dwindling base of dedicated "cappers" (as I have never owned a community which has ever required capping, it merely seems to sow discontent and often directly conflicts with players' game-playing preferences).

With that being said, it mostly appears to make the capping process more cumbersome than it needs to be. If minions alone are insufficient to meet build order/upkeep requirements, some members are compelled to sacrifice their skilling opportunities and time within the Citadel to gather these resources. I merely wish to suggest that it need not be this way.

2. The isolation of capping to the Clan Citadel, while once a unique aspect of resource gathering, often creates challenges which impede the advancement of the Citadel. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:20:03 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2017 08:17:34 by Audx

When Clan Citadels were released in a content update in July of 2011, the allure of a new skilling area unique to their own community in and of itself was sufficient to compel members to go to the Clan Citadel and complete their weekly resource cap.

As we approach six years since the release of Clan Citadels, however, it is clear that this allure has faded slightly, and that it is often insufficient to compel members to go to the Citadel and gather resources for their community. This especially appears to be the case with larger communities that already meet or exceed their upkeep requirements and only require a small portion of their members to complete their resource cap in order to maintain a top-tier Citadel. (Those who are mostly only interested in gaining the benefits of the Clan Avatar and who will willingly sacrifice anagogic orts to receive them, but with often not contribute to the maintenance or expansion of the Citadel itself.)

In principle, however, the isolation of the capping activity to be exclusively performed within the Citadel, though a sensical extension of the Clan Citadel design schema, appears to conflict directly with how most players enjoy playing RuneScape within the modern era. In order to complete their cap, any member is compelled to entirely leave the surface world and isolate themselves within the Citadel for up to several hours in order to finish their cap before the next Citadel build tick. Many members which I have talked to across communities find this to be demotivating, largely due to the fact they also must encounter the previous and following issues as well. Once again, I merely wish to suggest that capping need not be this way.

3. Capping is seldom a competitively rewarding activity.

This, by far, is one of the aspects of capping which I find to discourage members most: it simply is not as rewarding as it used to be. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:20:07 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 02:02:03 by Audx

The experience rates offered by skilling within the Clan Citadel seldom compete with other skilling methods found across the level spectrum of every skill which may be trained within the Clan Citadel. Where the Loom and Forge were hailed as revolutionary training methods for both Crafting and Smithing during their release, especially because they were free to use (in terms of gp), they just have not been able to stand the test of time against the likes of the Ithell harps, smelting corrupted ore, or by using either protean hides or protean bars on portable skilling stations.

Another aspect which is important to modern skillers is that alternate training activities offer a competitively "afk" alternative to more intensive skilling methods. The Citadel was certainly far more "afk" than most of the prevailing skilling methods within 2011 - even within the gathering skills category. However, this, too, is an aspect of training within the Clan Citadel that has not stood the test of time. There are now better methods which are more "afk" that offer better experience for less effort than any of the training methods currently provided via skilling plots within the Clan Citadel.

And, so, for small communities with experienced, end-game member bases looking to advance their Clan Citadel, what aspects of its training offer an allure compelling enough to incline them to skill at the Citadel without being required to? Aside from wishing to support one's own community, the benefits appear to be few and far between. (This will likely seem to be a case of cherry-picking, and, though I am inclined to agree, these cases are more common than I might insinuate.)

So, what might be done to amend the capping experience to be more compatible with modern player's expectations? To respond, I would like to propose two distinct solutions to this issue: With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:20:11 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 01:10:48 by Audx

Solution #1: Resource "Currency"

This solution draws inspiration from a currently existing mechanic with which no clan member would be unfamiliar: anagogic orts.

The idea is simple. First, remove the diversification in resource types (simply generating a universal resource for Clan Citadel upkeep and expansion: "resources&quot and remove the parameters which confine the abstraction of resources to the Citadel itself. Allow resources to be gathered gradually as a result of performing any array of skill training activities on the surface world (in a similar manner to which the tokens for Event mystery boxes have been able to be gathered in the past, and during the present Menaphos promotion; only without them being available via microtransactions, to state the obvious). These "resources" (which are essentially a stackable currency) would be automatically added to the currency pouch upon reception and would accumulate until the player has ascertained enough to satisfy their cap*. Skilling using the Clan Citadel plots or while wearing the Clan Cloak could offer an enhanced rate of gathering these resources if desired.

(* = It is important for me to mention here that the amount required to cap would be dependent upon the tier of the Clan Storehouse, as it is currently. The rate at which tokens are gathered could be balanced as necessary, though a rate which is consistent with the current average length of time required to fulfill one's resource cap is preferable.)

After the player has accumulated the maximum amount of resources they can, the player can submit them to the Citadel (either by delivering them there in person or by an option on the currency item). These resources would serve two purposes:

1. As they do presently, they would be used to both maintain the Clan Citadel upkeep and toward build orders for expansions. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:20:18 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2017 08:21:19 by Audx

2. They would allow the player to skill within the Clan Citadel (for the same amount of time they can currently until completing their cap, with the amount gradually depleting until they have none remaining) on any plot they desire for enhanced experience in that respective skill. When contemplating this function, I thought that submitting the resources would both contribute toward their cap and upkeep total/active build orders immediately upon submission, and the player would then gain the same amount they submitted on a HUD counter to be expended within the Citadel. Submitting enough resources to satisfy your cap would entitle the clan member to the same amount of bonus experience as they are presently able to claim.

Solution #2: Clan Coffers

This solution draws inspiration from suggestions to find ways to ensure for a consistent means of managing the proliferation of resource items in-game, and works similarly to the exchange system used in Mobilizing Armies.

As the title suggests, this solution involves creating a clan coffer within the Clan Keep. The purpose of this coffer is to allow members to submit surface-world products (logs/ore/fish/bars/etc.) into the coffers at balanced amounts in exchange for directly satisfying their cap (bypassing the skilling time) once enough items have been deposited. Each "tier" of item (differentiating between normal logs and elder logs) deposited would be weighted differently toward the completion of the cap. A case could also be made for a player to be allowed to submit a reasonable amount of coins instead of resources.

It is very important for me to mention that, by absolutely no means, could the Clan Owner or any other members access the items deposited within the coffers. Once they are deposited, following a confirmation message, they are destroyed and thus unable to be reclaimed. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:20:27 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 01:48:21 by Audx

I expect the second solution to be indefinitely more controversial than the first (which, though optional, suggests the possibility for another weekly activity which players may feel obligated to do), as it offers an avenue for wealthier players to bypass the capping time directly, but I simply wished to propose it as food for thought.

Closing Remarks:

Both of the preceding suggestions assume that the third issue stated will be addressed and resolved, restoring the validity of the Clan Citadel as a viable option for both skill training and satisfying the member resource cap.

Suggestions to resolve this issue include adjusting experience rates to allow them to adhere to a scale which increases accordingly with the skill level of the member who is training at the skilling plot - restoring the Citadel as a competitive option for gaining experience in the skills able to be trained there. Additionally, allowing skills trained at the training plots to be satisfactorily "afk-able" insofar as to make them competitive with modern methods is also an anticipated improvement.

It is conceivable that parts of these ideas could be implemented side-by-side to achieve an amicable compromise between these two approaches to alleviating the mediocrity of satisfying a clan resource cap.

I also wished to say that it is my understanding, and thus I wished to acknowledge, that Jagex did not intend for Clan Citadels to become premier skilling meccas or for clan membership to become a vital component of playing RuneScape. It is for this reason which I instill complete confidence in Jagex to ensure that the balancing would be appropriate so as to maintain these intentions.

Note: This thread was created explicitly to allow for the content herein contained to be deliberated upon by clan leaders and clan representatives. Another version of this thread exists in the Clan Centeral subforum. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 00:21:15 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2017 08:11:02 by Audx

TL;DR:

This thread hopes to address common issues with the member resource capping infrastructure by addressing three problems and offering two distinct solutions:

Problems:

1. The diversification of capping resources, while an attractive and sensical element of Citadel upkeep design, is often a hindrance or burden for growing communities to bear. It often results in a cumbersome capping experience in which some members must sacrifice hours of their time and better experience opportunities, earning experience in skills they don't need, in order to earn resources required for upkeep/build orders.

2. The isolation of capping to the Clan Citadel, while once a unique aspect of resource gathering, often creates challenges which impede the advancement of the Citadel. Few players today want to stay isolated on a floating island for hours cut off from the surface world.

3. Capping is seldom a competitively rewarding activity. It fails to be competitive on account of the experience rewarded for capping and the quality of the skilling experience (it's less afk than current methods).

Solutions:

1. Resource Currency - Remove resource diversification and limiting capping to the citadel. Training any skill on the surface world awards resources (one currency) which are deposited into the currency pouch. Once enough of them has been ascertained to meet the capping requirement, they can be deposited at the Citadel to satisfy the cap and unlock a temporary opportunity to earn enhanced experience at any clan citadel plot.

2. Clan Coffers - Add coffers to the Clan Keep, into which members can deposit various resources or coins to bypass the capping time requirement. Clan Owners or members would not be able to access or retrieve deposited resources, and they are destroyed once they are deposited.

Please feel free to offer respectful feedback on the topic of discussion below. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

24-Jun-2017 01:28:29 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 02:32:15 by Audx

Addendi:
* Gathering resource "currency" would not consume resources or drops received in exchange for Citadel resources (unlike Shattered Heart fragments or Golden rocks currently do on occasion). Think of it as though your avatar is gradually setting aside resources they gather or ascertain by combat which will be given to the Citadel in order to contribute toward build orders or upkeep. The purpose of this method is to essentially allow you to engage in whatever facet of RuneScape you enjoy most whilst also being able to contribute to your clan without being forced to labor at the Citadel for hours or train from a small selection of predetermined skills. With the Utmost Sincerity, Respect, and Integrity,

~Audx

25-Jun-2017 08:44:39

These suggestions have been made in the past. Unfortunately, our dear CM JMods have hinted that they would probably #scrapCitadel entirely before reworking the spaghetti code that Citadel is - a comment which some may consider to have been made in humor, but that I have personally seriously supported.

With that in mind, we would encourage you to enjoy the game and struggle no further. Remember that the Clan is not defined by the amount of people on its Chat nor the tier of its Citadel, but by its people who enjoy playing the game together. #collapseCitadel if that makes you happy; I know it made me very very happy not to stress about it anymore!

That being said, we wish you a very warm welcome to the Cake Lovers Forum! And you should totally join us on Discord to meet some of the other crazy people that have access to this forum for some off-site fun!

*

Pescao6

of

El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?

~

Discord: Pescao6#0001

26-Jun-2017 07:22:11