RuneScape Forum Archive | Ownership or Diplomacy?

May

2023

Shamk

Posts: 4,410 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Something I have often found in leading styles, are differing opinions. Opinions that sometimes ruin clans because deep down, key members don't agree or don't understand them. As an example if you have a points based rank system, however your deputy does not understand it, and for whatever reason he needs to do the ranking that day or however the chips fall into place, what then?

I have asked similar questions before, so for those who may remember please humor me once more, I enjoy reading the responses and through the ideas presented in them.

So, the real question is:

Do you lead in terms of ownership, your clan is 100% your version and vision and if you don't like it don't join?

or.....

Do you lead with compromise? Like you wanted higher requirements to join, but were willing to lower them on request of one or more staff members. You don't quite agree with everything, but at least everyone feels reasonably content.

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Shamk

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going for 120's

16-Jun-2016 06:02:10

May

2023

Shamk

Posts: 4,410 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Also for those curious.....

I have been told that when you make a clan, or lead one, it should be 100% in your vision. I attempted this but failed. Nothing went wrong of course, my current clan died due to reasons beyond my or anyone's control. (Does the phrase....S*** happens mean anything to you?) But I did at times feel a since of discontentment because the way I saw things and the way some members saw them didn't mesh, however we found a way to mix them nonetheless.

As I slowly return, and my busy life slowly downshifts, a few friends want me to restart things again and afresh. With the clan probation revoked, I would honestly consider it, except that I want a very low maintenance clan and them not so much. (I'm NOT lazy, however the simpler things are kept, the less I have to field and therefore the less it intrudes upon my RL pursuits and everybody's, that's my reasoning anyhow...) If I play hardball and say it's my way or the highway, they may not be interested in helping me at all, and without them, things could easily be 3x harder. (founding with random people can be hazardous, even though I consider myself quite seasoned with clans and the finding founders process.)

They don't really wish to concede, and neither do I the more I think about it. So then, does your clan practice the art of compromise, or did you make clear to your founders past or present that your way was the only one amicable to you?

As a few bonus questions to those with time on their hands, how do you manage your clan if you find your busy IRL? And how did you go about when founding? Did you found with a larger group, or a small one, with friends or random people, what did you do and is there anything you'd have done different looking back?

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Shamk

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5,000+ PK's

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Maxed - 1.7b xp.

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going for 120's

16-Jun-2016 06:18:00

Dec

2011

Archaeox

Forum Moderator Posts: 53,398 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We have always found that

consultative autocracy

is the way to go - everyone is welcome to make suggestions and have an input, but once a decision is made by the clan leader, it's final.

~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

!! Slava Ukraini - heroyam slava !!

16-Jun-2016 06:37:44 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2016 06:38:19 by Archaeox

Calm Enigma

Forum Moderator Posts: 10,882 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Agreed with Arch above. Being blind to other opinions and letting others feel a 'right' to too much importance both tend to lead to drama. The latter because you can't very well agree with everyone and those with whom you disagree tend to get the impression they are being ignored, despite it just being a difference in viewpoint. Taking into account opinions while making sure the councillors are aware they don't have a right to change the final choice is a good middle ground imo.

A good clan leader can probably choose any approach tbh. It just needs more or less skill in maintaining good relationships between you and your members/councillors and between the members/councillors themselves. -

C.E.

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16-Jun-2016 08:53:01

Nov

2011

Guardian Elf

Posts: 5,158 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

That's a lot of interesting questions, I'll try to answer a few;

As a leader it's your job to spread your vision of the clan that you want to lead. Communication is key to success. If you're naturally strict; be strict. Someone doesn't do their responsibility - it's up to you to either talk it over, give them a warning or straight up demote.

If you didn't make that clear before they've accepted the responsibility; talk it over. If you did; demote. We're all humans (I like to think so) so mistakes are bound to happen. Personally I made it clear that if you can't full-fill your responsibilities then let me (or any other staff member) know ahead of time so others can take over.

If that happens regularly then I won't hesitate to talk it over with them, and ask them if they still want or can take up those responsibilities. If not; demote. If yes: I except them to step up and I'll keep a close eye on them for a while to see if they live up to the expectations.

In a way; yes - I lead my clan the way I want it to be. Though members are welcome to make suggestions and everything is up for discussion. It's my job to keep my members happy; and I can't do that without their feedback.

My vision for the clan; I want to lead a social clan that enjoys every aspect of the game. A clan that regularly bonds together through events and in-game interaction in a casual way.

I got a simple rule to help manage the direction the clan is heading in to; the majority of members decides. I'm happy to make changes to the clan, as long as; A: it doesn't compromise my vision of the clan, B: it's a sensible change, C: the majority benefits from it and D: it doesn't disrupt what we've got going on.

Although my vision is rather broad, so it hardly comes to any changes. (Almost anything goes - within reason of course) But if you're leading a PvM clan, I doubt you're gonna focus on mini-games.

(That's a few answers, I guess? - I'll check back later to see if I can answer some more) Pleasure in the job, puts perfection in the work.

16-Jun-2016 09:25:59 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2016 09:37:07 by Guardian Elf

Nov

2011

Guardian Elf

Posts: 5,158 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To add to it;

Make it clear together what you expect of your founders/staff and what they can expect from you. Whether it be their responsibilities or the vision you and your collective staff have of the clan.

After all; the vision you share is the vision you're working for together. If any of them totally differs from that; it's up to them to decide if they want to pursue their own journey in a different clan, setup their own or compromise and stay.

That's not your choice as a leader, people come and go and along the way you'll further spread your vision and 'acquire' new members who fit your description of your clan.

But understand; you won't be able to make them happy if they stay. As long as the vision is not something they pursue, it will only create drama at the end of the day.

As for the bonus questions:

If I'm busy IRL, I make sure everyone knows what's expected of them ahead of time. I try to make up for it later by putting more time into the clan and let them know that as well.

When my clan was founded, it was done among friends, though they didn't want to put any effort into it so eventually they left the clan as my vision and their vision differed too much.

At first someone else had leadership, though she didn't do a thing so I (at first reluctantly) took over and over time it became my clan rather than our clan. Eventually they left and along the way I got members who became close friends and they shared the same vision as me so it made things a lot easier.

If I look back at it, I wouldn't have done anything differently. Taking over the clan was one of the best decisions I've made. Everything is a learning experience and it helped me form me to be the person that the clan needs, my PM is always open for clan-related and non-clan related assistance. And I can't mention it enough but communication is key to success. Stay rational and don't let emotions get in the way to managing the clan. Pleasure in the job, puts perfection in the work.

16-Jun-2016 10:03:01

Ninmci

Posts: 12,166 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

When my son 1st told me i had to play this game so i could make his 12 year old school mates steel armour so they could kill each other in wildy .

and repeat again and again . i was lost he was at school who do i ask what to do.

As im a shy reclusive guy i found it hard to work things out.

I joined a clan/ friends group . clans didn't exist . But they had elitist members who called people lower than them noobs.

So wers the air alter whys it been moved its basic information but how do i find out,

So i found myself back in f2p clanless helping people make armour and just ended up with my own bunch of noobs in friends chat.

So clan vision helping people

Clan tends to be like me reclusive .

combat elitist tend to find us to slow and move on. why dont they invite friends into clan and make events.

So ? Do you lead in terms of ownership, your clan is 100% your version and vision and if you don't like it don't join?

Basically yes but id like people to buid on foundations but to they lazy to build and make it better and move on

so im to lazy to do more than i do they to lazy to do anything .

i have just opened a discord voice chat but i dont expect it to be more than a method of puting clan forums facebook and teamspeak all in 1 spot with ability to text ofline members

https://youtu.be/w9yFODhWATw

im a dictator who wants others to doo moor

but im lazy and so is everyone else

I wanted no requirements - max - f2p -p2p with a time out leave of absence 6 months max b4 kick

Diplomacy Harmony what i have is discord rofl will it help clan build on friends made

stupid name for a guild voice chat

Glad2bhelp -
Ninmcii#0315
~ Account safety ~ Forum Help @ninmci

16-Jun-2016 11:12:10 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2016 11:42:39 by Ninmci

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Stick always to your main vision then those who agree with it will support it and remain with the clan, anyone who doesnt agree doesnt have to stay.

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SKILL SCHOOL

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16-Jun-2016 11:23:53

CuddleBucket

Posts: 17,474 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

No one person is bigger than the clan, including the Owner.
I work for my clan, helping others to achieve their goals, making every effort to incorporate their suggestions into the working, but with a clear focus on what is in the clans best interests.

If you know what you're doing & why you're doing it, I've found it easy having discussions with people who have different opinions, until we can both reach an understanding of each other.

Regarding your case specifically, it really depends on how well you know the person you are having this minor problem with.
If he's the only one not a fan of the system then it's likely just him, & you should make every effort to ensure others can cover for him, & allow him to focus on his strengths.

So your post says he doesn't understand it rather than isn't in favour of it, so the clear solution there is to have others cover while you make an extensive & thoroughly explained step by step guide, trying your best not to be patronising but making sure everything is clear.

Sometimes things just don't click with people, & if said person has trouble with this system, your job is to make sure there are enough people in place who can handle the task.

YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

16-Jun-2016 14:18:43

Sep

2011

Ignore List

Posts: 4,879 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I have to agree with Arch - it's how I have run clans for over 10 years. Every clan member is welcome to make a suggestion, it will be discussed by the admin team and agreed and carried out however if I make a veto or a decision which I feel is in the best interest of the clan it is final (this doesen't happen often where I make a dictatorship decision, but if need be I will)

However one has to understand you do not form the clan yourself there are others. As with CuddleBucket I do everything I can too enrich the experience of my members and ensure they are having fun.

As a clan leader you sell your vision to your clan members hence why they join. You sell your vision to your admins and in return if they agree/are interested they will help you achieve that vision.

How do you manage your clan if you find your busy IRL?

When selecting admins we like to ensure they have the skills to be a potential clan leader in essence for example having strong communication skills, able to work as a team, strict but fair, good management skills and the like.

So when I am busy IRL I know the clan is in safe capable hands. I have a lot of clan members on Skype. Some also have me on twitter and facebook and a few have my phone number so I'm always contactable should I be needed.

How did you go about when founding? Did you found with a larger group, or a small one, with friends or random people?

Well as with my clan motto "Join as Friends, Stay as Family" - It started with a group of friends, and grew bigger.

What did you do and is there anything you'd have done different looking back?

If i'm honest with you? No - We work as a team and my clan members and admins know I have given my heart and soul too them and if I was to make a decision, it is in their best interest and I would talk about it with them and how it will affect them and such.

In regards too your specific situation CuddleBucket has hit the nail on the head.
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16-Jun-2016 15:42:12 - Last edited on 17-Jun-2016 19:40:17 by Ignore List

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Ownership or Diplomacy?