RuneScape Forum Archive | Vis Wax Fc V5 Combinations

Aeromech said :
Aeromech said :
What happens when my Slot 3 is one of the alternates for Slot 2 please? For example, today my Slot 3 was earth. I used the cape to determine that. My slot 2 was Dust, and I had already used earth, so I used air for a total of 98. For me, would some other rune have replaced earth as the 29-point replacement for Dust? Or would there simply have been no rune to replace the Dust for 29 points? Or is it that earth would still have given 29 points in place of Dust but then I would have had to use something else for Slot 3?
I just answered my own question. It's the last choice. Earth would still have given me 29 in place of dust. The fact that earth was my Slot 3 doesn't matter. It's still my second place for Slot 2. I spent a few extra tries on one of my other accounts experimenting with a similar situation and confirmed that it works that way. Yeah you got that all correct.
Based on the visible information, Cosmic Air Earth is your highest profit combo.
The only condition on runes is that you can't have for example Earth as the green rune (max wax) in more than 1 slot.

The only other thing you could have tried today to potentially get higher profit would be to use Air in Slot 1, Earth in Slot 2, & see if you could get a high result with another cheap rune in Slot 3.

So for example, "IF" Water happened to be 39/40 in Slot 3, then Air Earth Water (93 wax) would have been 66k gp more profit than Cosmic Air Earth (98 wax).

Given the high price of wax currently it's likely you got max profit using Cosmic unless you had a very lucky alt in Slot 3.

YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

*

~

30-Apr-2020 22:04:48

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thanks for the reply.

Today, I ended up doing an experiment to find out the values of all my runes in all three slots. I used 86 tries. Clearly, I am not going to collect my wax today. I sacrificed today to do this experiment. I learned some interesting things. Based on what I've learned from this experiment, I'm going to makes some small adjustments to how I play this game.

The thing that surprised me the most is that it is possible for a rune to be worth zero viz wax. I had always assumed that the values went from 1 to 30 or 1 to 40. Now I know they start at 0 instead.

There are 20 runes and values up to 30 or 40. Not every value can have an associated rune. Every rune (in each slot) does have a unique value. There are no ties.

Before doing my experiment today, I didn't know how the runes were distributed over the range of possible values. For instance, in slot 1, they could have randomized the order of the runes and then given them values 11, 12, 13, ..., 30. That is, they could have populated the high end of the table of possible values. That's not what they do.

Another way they might have chosen to populate the range of values was to space them out fairly uniformly. For example, in the third slot, they might have put them in places 2,4,6,8,..., 40. But they don't do that either.

Anyway, I tried every rune in every slot and figured out the value FOR TODAY FOR ME what they all were.

I collected my results in an Excel file. I'm going to try pasting the results here. I don't know how to format a table, so I'll paste each slot separately. Sorry, you'll have to scroll

OK, I don't have room here. I'll paste them into the next thread.

03-May-2020 08:16:27 - Last edited on 03-May-2020 09:01:24 by Aeromech

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SLOT 1
0
1
2 lava
3
4
5
6 air
7 water
8 cosmic
9 dust
10 earth
11
12 blood
13 fire
14
15 nature
16 mind
17 chaos
18 law
19 astral
20 death
21 body
22 soul
23 smoke
24
25
26 mud
27
28 mist
29
30 steam

SLOT 2
0 steam
1
2
3 earth
4 mist
5
6 dust
7 blood
8 air
9 water
10 smoke
11
12 cosmic
13 nature
14
15 chaos
16
17 death
18 lava
19
20
21 mud
22
23
24 astral
25 law
26
27 soul
28 fire
29 body
30 mind

SLOT 3
0
1 fire
2 law
3 air
4
5
6 mind
7
8 blood
9
10 astral
11 water
12 death
13 earth
14 mud
15 lava
16
17
18
19
20 nature
21
22 chaos
23
24
25
26 smoke
27
28 cosmic
29
30 steam
31
32 soul
33
34
35 dust
36 mist
37
38
39
40 body

03-May-2020 08:16:43 - Last edited on 03-May-2020 08:17:41 by Aeromech

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Here are some of my observations about that data in the previous post.

It is possible for a rune to have zero value. I saw that steam in slot 2 had value 0. (I was quite surprised by this finding. I checked it a couple of different ways to be sure I hadn't messed up. I'm very confident I did the math right).

There is always a rune with the highest possible value. (No surprise there.)

The runes are not spread with regular spacing. (mildly surprising. I half expected them to have a pattern).

Very grossly, the runes seems to be distributed over the range of possible values uniformly. They don't seem to be biased towards the top or towards the bottom.

There are some longish clumps with no gaps.

There doesn't seem to be any obvious pattern. (Not a big surprise).

03-May-2020 08:18:18 - Last edited on 03-May-2020 08:35:52 by Aeromech

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Here's how this will change my approach.

For simplicity in explaining this, imagine I got smiley faces for slots 1 and 2. That means they are giving me 60 points.

I'm now seeking a good rune for slot 3.

I have a runecrafting cape, so I always know my best rune in slot 3. When it's a cheap rune, I'm done. I'm getting 100 viz wax. But when it's an expensive rune, I'm going to search for alternatives.

Suppose I've found a cheapish rune worth 33 viz wax (total score of 93).

Before this experiment, I half expected that there would always be runes worth 39, 38, 37, 36, 35, 34 available. That is, I was acting as though all the runes were forced to the highest scores.

With the (incorrect) assumption that there were 6 runes available better than the one I already had and there are only 20 total, (and one expensive rune already known worth 40 wax) it seemed like almost 1 in 3 chance of getting a better rune. So I'd try a couple more times.

Now, I know there may not be any runes higher than that 33. Or there might be one or two. I'm less likely to try to find a better rune if I get a score in the 90's or even high 80's.

03-May-2020 08:36:12 - Last edited on 03-May-2020 08:39:42 by Aeromech

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Here are screen shots showing that it is possible to have a rune worth 0 viz wax:

03-May-2020 08:48:12 - Last edited on 03-May-2020 09:09:37 by Aeromech

CuddleBucket

Posts: 17,474 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sounds like you had fun breaking it down & checking for yourself.
It is known that the range starts at 0 & runes are distributed randomly.

The following link has a table that you can sort by the 3rd column, 'ge price', to see how much it costs you to use a particular rune.
https://runescape.wiki/w/Rune_Goldberg_Machine

This is what my recommendations are based on.

Also, it only costs half of 1% in extra runes per extra try.
It is always worth getting your best value combo long term regardless of how many tries.
Using the table in the link above will help you to eliminate many runes as possibly better than what you have.

Using all the information contained in the post at the top of this page or on page 1, in combination with the table mentioned above & your runecrafting cape, you can generally find your best combo easily in very few tries.

Also, you mentioned you wouldn't be getting wax today because you used 86 tries.
If you go to the rune goldberg machine, put in Death Mind Body in that order, if you compare the cost of the runes that it says it will take from you, to the value of the wax it is offering you, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how much profit you will still make. I hope you see this in time.

YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

03-May-2020 15:05:48

Oct

2005

Aeromech

Posts: 2,973 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CuddleBucket said :
Also, you mentioned you wouldn't be getting wax today because you used 86 tries.
If you go to the rune goldberg machine, put in Death Mind Body in that order, if you compare the cost of the runes that it says it will take from you, to the value of the wax it is offering you, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how much profit you will still make. I hope you see this in time.

You are so right! I had made a huge assumption that with so many tries, the runes would be more expensive than the viz wax. But I calculated the cost the way you suggested, and even though I'm up to 95 tries (after creating those screen shots), I'm still make more than a million gp of profit. Amazing! And thank you for helping me see that.

03-May-2020 17:18:42