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Combat XP Changes

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28-Sep-2022 11:03:08

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Distributing xp solely based on damage dealt was not a good system. It punishes you for fighting something having offensive capabilties (since you might want to heal up from time to time) and even moreso when having defensive ones (since missed hits will literally hurt your xp rates). If you want to train, you will want to fight something, that literally only has health and 0 other stats - ideally a punching bag, but since those only give xp for so long, it will end up being a crab. Literally the reason why OS introduced multiple additional variants of those, so players will more easily find their eight-legged punching bag, since those things are contested as hell for that reason. The secondary combat training method via magic is splashing. You equip as much as equipment with negative magic style bonus as you possibly could and look out for some rat you can splash on for the next couple of hours. Your propsal is basically a combination of those two combat concepts.

Those random (low) xp values are rather an issue for old pre-eoc content, but I won't be so brazen to say, that newer content would be perfectly balanced when it comes to numbers - but it usually feels rewarding enough - saying it directly: not always, there are tasks I do avoid if I had a yak track slayer task (i.e. I want to gain as much xp as possible).

But in general: Take a look at the ripper demon - it has fairly low hp, but it is able to dish out quite a bit - in pre-eoc it would've been an horrible enemy if you were up to training. As it stands in the current system those 3k xp feel fairly adequate. A hydrix dragon has much more hp, but its offensive capabilities are worse - it gives more xp, but not four times as much. Generally it would be good idea to take a look at things, that just feel off - mostly old enemies, that might even deserve a full rework for that matter.

I do not say the idea would be bad per se - but it shouldn't be the main source of xp, but rather something supplementary. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

28-Sep-2022 12:17:31 - Last edited on 28-Sep-2022 12:32:11 by Rikornak

Jack Flac
Feb Member 2022

Jack Flac

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Rikornak said :
snip


I mean the idea was just that, a hybrid of the two systems. The reaso for giving xp on ability use was so that you weren't penalized for having to use things like defensives, or the odd splashing. It's not perfect I'll admit, but just look at how fast you can level from things like Elite Dungeons still. The game is designed currently to push you through the early and midgame as fast as possible because Jagexx doesn't want to take the time to fix it up. Which just compounds the issue of people getting to high level content way too fast and having no clue what they are doing still.

We need a combination of drastically slowing down how fast you level, and introductions of low level bosses and slayer mobs that teach the combat system. Rippers and Hydrixes giving decent xp isn't so much a problem, you need high level stats to attempt those to begin with. It's everything you fight on the way to that point that needs looking at. Trash low effort mobs should give trash xp. Not insanely high xp for next to no effort. With how fast stuff dies since eoc, they give way too much xp in return. If you want lots of xp, fight high difficulty mobs. Otherwise expect to get trash xp.

Also, one other thing. The changes in how xp were doled out were a big part of what killed off things like FoG and other minigames. That and the removal of 90% of rune and arrow costs. It's a lot harder to realistically train stats through pvp minigames. For what should be considered high level content, you get crap xp for it. Thats something that needs to be looked at as well. Personally I think we should reintroduce full rune and arrow costs, including catalyst for normal. Would also help to slow down on leveling stats, and give more of a bonus to skilling, No reason it should only exist for high level content. If they want it in one stage, introduce it for all. We've been spoiled with essentially free training for majority of our combat skills. Leader of The Enemy ||
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08-Oct-2022 02:41:41

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Right - FSW happened meanwhile and have shown what ED3 is an issue xp wise - if you're able to do it, which you are on a FSW, since it just gives you adequate equipment to begin with. As a real novice player it just won't be an option - since somebody else taking you with them also was fixed some time ago (and then find somebody who would do this, if you are really new). They already blasted their loot available in the first section to oblivion, so I am not sure if they also should to this with the xp - they basically could remove the trash in the first section at this point. I mean what they could change - you'll only be able to start x dungeons per hour - x being high enough, so it wouldn't hinder something like the ED1 token farm, which has much more involved. Unsure how much nerfing that would drive players to more MTX though...

Thing is - if it's about getting experienced as a player your two old systems won't help either - it literally just takes longer. They need to rebalance experience values entirely based on the difficulty of an enemy - but obviously not in some linear fashion - and especially not solely based on health. I am generally with you, that low levelled play should become more interesting - but you shouldn't be stuck on crab-esque enemies like forever - for that matter the RS3 system is much more advanced, than RS2/OS ever was.

PvP certainly is a different topic. I do not know how xp is calculated for that matter, but on the other hand you also haven't gotten so insane xp back in the day - unless you literally count the free magic xp from FoG due to the spell casts. But I for instance wouldn't see an issue if you could spend your combat minigame currencies on (b)xp. One CW Silver Ticket for the equivalent of a small star for instance - nothing too insane, but it'll add up over time. Something similar for the others - preferably secondary currencies so you wouldn't have to decide between xp and main items. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Oct-2022 06:17:00 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2022 07:36:57 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Regarding rune and arrow costs - Players are seeing issues when it comes to elder god arrows and those two senntisten spells, which basically consume one every use - which is more than we historically had - as long as you've worn Ava's device you're getting 72 % of your arrows re-equipped, as well as having 8 % dropping to the ground (OS can upgrade it so you basically re-gain 80 % at all times). /Edit: Elder God Arrows were changed to consume one with a 33 % chance - which still is more than we historically had - without Ava simply 80 % of your arrows are dropped.

Magic on the other hand was extremely unfeasible to use before the EoC - it works in OS, since runes are dirt cheap, as RC is getting botted the hell out of it (and they've adjusted several other aspects, like making the iban staff usable in the first place, as well as introducing their charged staff class) - but that wasn't the case in RS2 - and this isn't the case in RS3 - runecrafting is extremely profitable despite some spells being usable for dirt cheap as you say. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Oct-2022 06:17:08 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2022 06:41:06 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
But if something musn't be nerfed, it's standard spells - they're your every-day tool if you do not need something more advanced (like AoE, special effects or additional damage) - and this is the first time they actually were able to take on this role (do you even know how awful elemental spells actually were at mid to high levels - they're good enough at low levels, but it doesn't even take long for both other styles to surpass them - and to add insult to injury they also cost way less) - at least air spells are, since the other three elements still most often are not worth to be bothered - so I would even cut the air runes from them. But yeah - your issue basically just applies to them. Every spell with a special effect consumes runes every time they're triggering their special effect - and the two senntisten spells trigger with every single cast. But even in OS I really only wanted to start using magic upon reaching level 50 and being able to use my Iban staff - everything before that was mostly non-combat magic and quests - RS2/3 would only be much worse for that matter...

On the other hand - that thing that drives costs for us - equipment degradation - is not even a thing in OS, with the exception of barrows equipment, which historically had it - but you can get tier 80 armour and tier 85/90 weapons now and do not ever have to bother repairing it.

Going full circle - combat magic training pre-EoC was mostly FoG and then dungeoneering - and do you know why? Because it literally was entirely free. OS has neither of them - and they've even blocked gaining XP in the two PvP minigames, which would provide you supplies. I can only recommend you trying out this game, to get a fresher view on a lot of the mechanics you want to propose. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Oct-2022 06:33:13 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2022 08:05:32 by Rikornak

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