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very mad guy
Feb Member 2017

very mad guy

Posts: 7,715 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
((ive been afk for some time, so sorry about lack of attendance))

*i scan the battlefield, trying to figure out what to do*

"hmm, i know nothing about the shadow-forger and the fiery skeleton is rather questionable. should i tag with someone or go by myself now?"
They see me rollin', they better run...

08-Feb-2015 22:22:41

very mad guy
Feb Member 2017

very mad guy

Posts: 7,715 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
((ive been afk for some time, so sorry about lack of attendance))

*i scan the battlefield, trying to figure out what to do*

"hmm, i know nothing about the shadow-forger and the fiery skeleton is rather questionable. should i tag with someone or go by myself now?"
They see me rollin', they better run...

08-Feb-2015 22:23:13

very mad guy
Feb Member 2017

very mad guy

Posts: 7,715 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
((ive been afk for some time, so sorry about lack of attendance))

*i scan the battlefield, trying to figure out what to do*

"hmm, i know nothing about the shadow-forger and the fiery skeleton is rather questionable. should i tag with someone or go by myself now?"
They see me rollin', they better run...

08-Feb-2015 22:23:43

Ashlin107

Ashlin107

Posts: 4,670 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Enheduanna said :
Maybe because it's 3am and I get crabby when I'm tired, but I just... couldn't deal with the Megas.

The literal definition of positive--mathematically--is greater than zero. I cringed when I read those two sentences one after the other.

I know I've also made many a mention of how Natasha's shadowforging occurs at absolute zero or below, and that she's capable of harnessing positive energy naturally, and I've definitely hinted enough times that it's called shadowforging because it forges into and from the shadows of things .

The Megas is the worst possible weapon to use against her.

Now, now Mr. Magic you should be getting your sleep. Even master magicians need their sleep. :P

Jokes aside some of what you said has left more questions than answers. But as for how the weapon would or could work it would fire two beams one the positive energy and one absolute zero(which is the coldest possible temperature in the universe for those of you who don't know.). Also by your logic shouldn't the Shadowforger explode? I mean she uses negative energy yet she has sun light in her(positive energy) and on occasion has used the the two together as stated in the wiki. Which brings me to my next point.

As for the shadowforging being positive energy. What?!?! I believe you clearly stated many times in your wiki alone it's negative energy. Not to mention dark matter is mostly considered a negative substance. But if I missed something in the old thread. But if that's true... lying in your own wiki page tisk tisk.

As for Eno not being happy with my agency of light statement. Well you have to consider the fact Arkin(aka. the prisoner) didn't even know that info and that piece was from his perspective.

Now to post or wait for everyone else. That is the question. The statement below is false.
The statement above is true.

09-Feb-2015 08:41:51 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 08:46:02 by Ashlin107

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

Posts: 16,566 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ashlin107 said :
But as for how the weapon would or could work it would fire two beams one the positive energy and one absolute zero(which is the coldest possible temperature in the universe for those of you who don't know.).

Absolute zero is the absence of energy. You can't fire it; at best, you can draw the energy out of something, and keep doing so until there's nothing left. Even Natasha doesn't use absolute zero to attack - the temperature getting that low is a side-effect of the fact she uses negative energy (which is going through an absence of energy and coming out the other side).

Trying to create absolute zero (i.e. no energy) and positive energy alongside one another is a contradiction - all the positive energy will funnel itself into heating up the space-time that you've made absolute zero (because entropy and the laws of thermodynamics) in order to make it constant, and you'll waste so much of it that your attack won't really do anything at all.

Ashlin107 said :
Also by your logic shouldn't the Shadowforger explode? I mean she uses negative energy yet she has sun light in her(positive energy) and on occasion has used the the two together as stated in the wiki.

Go to Natasha's wiki article, and carefully re-read the section called "Exaltation of the Unconquered Sun". If that doesn't answer your question, I am literally incapable of doing so in a way you would understand.

Ashlin107 said :
As for the shadowforging being positive energy. What?!?! I believe you clearly stated many times in your wiki alone it's negative energy. Not to mention dark matter is mostly considered a negative substance. But if I missed something in the old thread. But if that's true... lying in your own wiki page tisk tisk.

Sorry, what?

I cannot comprehend how on earth you got that from anything I said.

09-Feb-2015 09:32:47 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 09:34:14 by Enheduanna

Ashlin107

Ashlin107

Posts: 4,670 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Enheduanna said :
and that she's capable of harnessing
positive
energy naturally, and I've definitely hinted enough times that it's called
shadowforging
because it forges into and from the shadows of things .[

To answer what you said at the end of your post. This shows what you said before. I've highlighted the key points if you have trouble finding them.

"Rather than manipulating shadows, she is actually manipulating a mixture of three things - the Nether, an arcane form of dark energy, and an variation of what would be colloqiually known as '
negative energy
', all of which manifest themselves on the Material Plane to those capable of seeing them as something very close to the shadows and darkness for which
shadowforging
is named."

The second paragraph on shadowforging. Take directly from the Shadowforger's page in the wiki. Again with key points highlighted for your convenience.

Now read through those two points carefully and tell me they do not completely contradict each other. If this doesn't prove my point I don't know what will.

As for the second point well I'll admit you've got me there. Although still from what you said this essentially allows her to manipulate the negative energy into more powerful shadows.

However about the weapon. There are numerous examples of freeze rays using absolute zero temperatures. One recent example is in the live action series "The Flash" where in one of the episodes the main villain uses such a weapon.

Also the way it would work is it would fire one beam after another. So pretty much the positive energy would destroy the armour and the other would freeze the blood. But for both our sakes lets just compromise and say the shot from the weapon in question missed and I needs to recharge. Fair? Good lets move on. The statement below is false.
The statement above is true.

09-Feb-2015 11:52:45 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 11:57:48 by Ashlin107

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

Posts: 16,566 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ashlin107 said :
To answer what you said at the end of your post. This shows what you said before. I've highlighted the key points if you have trouble finding them.

"Rather than manipulating shadows, she is actually manipulating a mixture of three things - the Nether, an arcane form of dark energy, and an variation of what would be colloqiually known as '
negative energy
', all of which manifest themselves on the Material Plane to those capable of seeing them as something very close to the shadows and darkness for which
shadowforging
is named."

The second paragraph on shadowforging. Take directly from the Shadowforger's page in the wiki. Again with key points highlighted for your convenience.

Now read through those two points carefully and tell me they do not completely contradict each other. If this doesn't prove my point I don't know what will.

Well, they don't.

At all.

Because they're talking about completely different things .

Natasha is capable of harnessing positive energy naturally, yes. You literally pointed this out in your previous post:

Ashlin107 said :
...yet she has sun light in her (positive energy)

It's in her blood.

There's also an entire section of her wiki article devoted to her ability to do that - the section I directed you to in my previous post.

You know what that section also says?

"In brief, the ridiculous amount of positive energy concentrated in one place through channeling the Unconquered Sun casts a 'shadow' of dark and negative energy exactly equal to it in magnitude...that Natasha can then call upon to actually shadowforge with.

The frightening thing about this, however, is that, strictly speaking, she doesn't use the power granted to her by her Exaltation itself, only its shadow..."

Sounds familiar? It should.

"...because it forges into and from the shadows of things."

09-Feb-2015 12:24:35 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 12:25:10 by Enheduanna

Ashlin107

Ashlin107

Posts: 4,670 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Actually in a way the two things still contradict each other. Or the first post is more misleading if anything. In that first statement you basically told me to look left when you meant look right. You may as well have outright said: "Shadowforging is completely about manipulating possitive energy." Either way lets just move on. With the compromise I mentioned earlier. The statement below is false.
The statement above is true.

09-Feb-2015 12:40:03 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 12:40:43 by Ashlin107

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

Posts: 16,566 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm not quite sure how more explicit I can make it, unless I just explain it outright.

So I'll do that.

The negative energy planes (for the same of being simple, I'm just shoving arcane dark energy, negative energy and the Nether into the same umbrella) Natasha draws her power from are mirrors of the positive energy planes (i.*. the whole of Everything, and quite a few other of the Eleven Realms too).

You know how in a mirror, you wave your right hand, and the mirror-you waves its left hand?

That's how the negative energy planes work.

An influx of positive energy is reflected in the negative energy planes, except because it's a mirror, though it's identical in magnitude, it's not identical in orientation - which is why it's copied as negative energy.

Natasha calls upon that reflected energy in order to shadowforge, because shadowforging.

That's why it's called shadowforging.

The brightest lights cast the deepest shadows; she doesn't use the power granted to her by her Exaltation itself, only its shadow; because it forges into and from the shadows of things.

And so on and so forth.

I don't just say that sort of thing because it sounds pretty, you know. If I was going to do that, I'd wax eloquent on Natasha's physical appearance for half an hour instead.

When I talk about Natasha harnessing positive energy, I talk about her Exalting. I know you've read that section more than once by now--and I've directly quoted the relevant paragraph above--so all I'll say about it is this:

Yes, technically, there are times when Natasha uses positive energy to shadowforge.

But that's like saying the sun is responsible for this post.

It's true - if the sun didn't exist, neither would this post.

But you could equally say that World War Two was responsible for this post, since Australia would be a different place if it never happened; I might not even have been born.

See what I mean?

09-Feb-2015 12:43:31 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2015 12:44:28 by Enheduanna

Enheduanna
Sep Member 2023

Enheduanna

Posts: 16,566 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I was writing that before you posted again, as you could probably tell from its length.

But no, we're not going to move on, not quite yet.

Because, you see, you called me a liar .

About my own character.

That just doesn't stand.

I am a ridiculous, arrogant ***** with one hell of a superiority complex. We all know that, so let's not pretend I'm actually likeable from the impressions I give you all here.

But I don't lie.

I don't think you're quite as immersed--or interested--in the whole "writing" thing as I am, so let me try and explain the magnitude of that insult.

Imagine, for a moment, that you've just beaten a game.

But not just any game.

No, this is a game you've been trying to beat for weeks. Maybe even months. It was hard and tough and sometimes terrifying, but you did it . You even have the proof - in your New Game+ (because you'll be better this time, you know it), you have that special item that only people who've beaten the game can have.

In fact, you've actually had people over to your place; they've seen the item in the flesh, so to speak - they've seen the proof, and maybe they've even asked you for advice on how to beat it themselves.

Why, you've even written a guide on how to beat that last, horrific mission; you've described your character build down to the last, finicky button on their shoe. You've told everyone what items you chose, what powers and skills you invested your levels in, and what combos you used to wreck as much face as you could.

And then, one of those people you've had over--he's seen the item, read the guide, maybe even used some of your advice--looks at you, and says that "you didn't beat the game, stop lying."

It's an insult so vast, so nonsensical, that it takes hours to sink in.

You don't even understand it at first - the proof is obvious. It's there. It's right in his face . How could he not believe you?

Later, the anger comes.

And you are not amused.

09-Feb-2015 12:57:49

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