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Lokintr
Dec Member 2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well, first off, this is much, much better than Brotherly Love. In both, an interesting and unique approach to an old favourite in terms of overall theme, but I felt this was easier to read and the ending was admittedly clever.
However, and, I'm afraid it is quite a big 'however', in my opinion your fans are rather free with their praise. Persistently throughout there were problems with grammar and, though I imagine that this was deliberate on your part, you seem to confuse RuneScape as a concept. Is it a game and the means for Kipplin to put himself on the same level as David, Kipplin being a real person playing said game; or is it a world in and of itself? You switch from "this is someone playing the game by looking at the computer" to "this person is part of this real world [RuneScape in this case]", especially as you switched from the in-game conversations that read as real, to the real world conversations between Kipplin and David and later David, Jenna and the narrator with almost no differentiation.
As I said, that was probably deliberate, but reading it I felt it was too inconsistent to be believable. Even looking at it from an abstract point of view that Kipplin and the narrator were so obsessed with David and his achievements that the game became real for them didn't really work for me.
Furthermore, until I got to the end, I read it with a subconscious "Er, really?" in my head. The whole thing is just so unbelievable that its message was just lost. Fair enough, Kipplin fell in love, but to then become as infatuated with the GAME as he was by David? Reading it for me was like walking through a mediocre art exhibit and being entirely underwhelmed ... until finally I see something you like. There was no real sense of empathy, either, as I found Kipplin just too unbelievable to feel anything for him. As for David, he was just "there" - there was no real depth to him as a character, so he can't be regarded with any.

21-Jun-2011 16:53:31

Lokintr
Dec Member 2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The character of the narrator was a good medium, not overly done, but as lacking as David. His reaction to David was believable, and I suppose as a reader you can empathy for Kipplin through the empathy that the narrator felt.
So yeah, better than Brotherly Love and the ending was good, but in all honesty that was the only thing that I really liked; considering the hype, I was expecting something more.

21-Jun-2011 16:56:37

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“Persistently throughout there were problems with grammar and, though I imagine that this was deliberate on your part, you seem to confuse RuneScape as a concept. Is it a game and the means for Kipplin to put himself on the same level as David, Kipplin being a real person playing said game; or is it a world in and of itself? You switch from "this is someone playing the game by looking at the computer" to "this person is part of this real world [RuneScape in this case]", especially as you switched from the in-game conversations that read as real, to the real world conversations between Kipplin and David and later David, Jenna and the narrator with almost no differentiation.”
--I will consider some of the points you raised. However, I did not confuse RuneScape as a concept. Your idea is that the in-game experience of the narrator (the mansion etc) should be separate to those of real life (park scene), because of the physical locations of one being real while the other is computer data. In that sense, yes, they should be separated. But within the confines of our narrator’s experience, as we see the story from our narrator’s eyes, his avatar in the game of RuneScape is as real as his individual playing the game and socialising with friends – these are all parts of his experiences in life. Furthermore, because this is a piece of fiction which our narrator has put up on the Stories Forum, both worlds exists only in the story itself, and therefore exists in the same plane. If this story were written in third person with the goal of immersing the reader in a particular moment then yes, what you seem to suggest would be appropriate.

”Fair enough, Kipplin fell in love, but to then become as infatuated with the GAME as he was by David?”
--From where did you get this idea? I have stated in the story that Kipplin was not infatuated by the game, but rather, feel he needs to continue playing to redeem himself.

21-Jun-2011 21:43:04

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“As for David, he was just "there" - there was no real depth to him as a character, so he can't be regarded with any.”
--Unfortunately, our narrator did*’t find it necessary to give David much depth, probably due to his dislike for the character. Since arguably David is the villain of the story, it would not be ideal to give him the depth that would give reason for a reader to sympathise with him. On a practical level, if he were to have more depth he would steal the focus from the story. On a conceptual level, he did*’t need the depth, which will make Kipplin’s loss all the greater.
“considering the hype, I was expecting something more.”
--I’m not aware of this hype. Personally, I discourage hypes of any sort. Who is this person spreading this hype about this story, and if there is one, could you lead me to this perpetrator?

21-Jun-2011 21:43:16

Lokintr
Dec Member 2014

Lokintr

Posts: 2,432 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As to the first point, English, I did say it was personal preference and deliberate on your part.
You didn't state precisely, but I use the word "infatuated" here just to liken his obsession with the game to his love for David, which I found quite far fetched.
David as a character was a letdown with quite how basic he was, though. If as you say he was a villain then he should have had a bit more depth to him; you should have attempted to achieve a balance of having enough depth to be believable but not too much so as to, as you say, "steal focus".
Also, hype: you have about a full posts of quotes praising the story. Having read those, I was expecting something fabulous.

21-Jun-2011 22:10:46 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2011 22:15:37 by Lokintr

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

Posts: 9,782 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“You didn't state precisely, but I use the word "infatuated" here just to liken his obsession with the game to his love for David, which I found quite far fetched.”
--Yeah, but I remember stating this on page 3.
“He never really liked the game. He played, because David, at some point in his life, loved it. The hardship of training, for hours on end, mindlessly, was a test at the end of which David would judge and watch with scrutiny.”
Besides, I think you seem to find the whole concept far fetched. As much of an embarrassment it may be for me to admit, this is largely a story of real life events and motives. If you cannot believe this as a real life story, there is no reason to convince you this is fiction.
”David as a character was a letdown with quite how basic he was, though. If as you say he was a villain then he should have had a bit more depth to him; you should have attempted to achieve a balance of having enough depth to be believable but not too much so as to, as you say, "steal focus".”
--If you have never met an individual like David in real life, perhaps you should consider yourself lucky. There used to be an abundant amount of such people in my old school – hated them, frankly. They just seem to drift through life and take things for granted.
”Also, hype: you have about a full posts of quotes praising the story. Having read those, I was expecting something fabulous.”
--I do not think that the quotes were designed to deceive anybody. However, it must be disappointing for you not to find what you’re looking for. I do not expect to please everybody, nor do I feel I must. Many readers have come and gone and hated everything I ever wrote. But since this point itself is not part of the constructive criticism, I’ll stop here.

Mitch – I disagree. The loop is not nearly as hard to do as a consistent two-layered prose in Brotherly Love. However, this one does get to the point quicker.

21-Jun-2011 23:43:42

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