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~~English's Forgotten Tales~~

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Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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Yeah, I heard you liked Brutii because they take over Grecian cities first and become rich quickly while Julli get hordes and Scipii gets giant elephants.
It is quite interesting in multiplayer mode. I've seen videos of people sitting down for four hours per gaming session playing with friends from elsewhere and plot attacks.
Well, they have to be somewhat historically accurate in terms of background, what technologies were available etc, because the scenarios that can come out of all these historically accurate details could be wildly different. So this game is full of 'what ifs', but realistic 'what ifs' they remain.

15-May-2012 12:07:26

Reaper Ben

Reaper Ben

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Oh, I guess we've already talked about this! =P Yes it's true that's why I love the Brutii. Plus you take down the greeks early, which are really annoying (due to the phalanx). But the most annoying faction of all to me is Egypt. By the time I get there, they are always over powerful and it takes years to take the cities.
But for the Scipii they have a temple that grants golden upgrades for all their units upon completion of training. And that makes me jealous.
Ah ok. It would be interesting though if you could completely vere off course and create your own history. (Although I do understand that you can already can).

15-May-2012 15:45:54

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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Phalanx aren't particularly annoying to me as Julli. When I do get to take Grecian cities my military capabilities will allow me to have archers and heavy ornagers. Simple-minded spearmen are not a problem.
As for Egypt, it is quite true that they take a while. I never begin invasion into Africa until I have two or three armies with fully-coloured banners and another reserved army to garrison purposes.
Didn't know that about Scipii. But then Scipii gets a lot of battles in sea and Rome sea battles aren't particularly exciting...
Yeah, I heard someone managed to take over the world with Hungary :D . Join the Axis and then backstab Germany and took over Berlin etc.

16-May-2012 12:06:34

Reaper Ben

Reaper Ben

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Ah heavy ornagers... that explains. I never use those. I personally dislike that powerful and slow unit. I'm far more into speed than heavy damage. So I never use them in the campaign. And they are forbidden in multiplayer battles, so the only time I use them is when me and one of my brothers are trying to take a city in custom battles and the enemy outnumber us 1-6. XP
Hum... I never thought of using more than one army to invade anything... I realize that this sounds completely stupid, but it's true. I do use several armies, but never in one place; I use them in different direction: One in Spain, one in Gaul, one in Britain, one in Germany, etc... And once that army has conquered it's province, it moves on to the province adjacent (Of course, since I take the whole army out of the town each time, it take me 3-6 turns to recruit new units so that the population does not riot against me).
Hungary. XP That seems like it would be crazy hard. I wonder if anyone ever tried with Britain... It's extremely strong at defense, but when it comes to invading and occupying, they are not the best.

16-May-2012 15:38:33 - Last edited on 16-May-2012 15:42:23 by Reaper Ben

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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Forbidden in multiplayer battles? Ouch. In a full 20-unit-cards army (which I will try to get several before launching a campaign against a stronger nation) my army consist of...
1 general
4 units of heavy ornagers
3 units of heavy cavalry
3 units of archers
9 units of urban cohorts
What kind of a playstyle is that? :P . Maybe you can tell. Or do I have to provide battle tactics as well?

An example of me using several armies would be just after taking over Rome as Julli. Before the event can trigger at any moment I will send armies into Italy's southern areas and place each of my full-bannered-armies next to each of the city. They are followed by a few more armies composed mainly of Early legionnary cohorts or Town watch and stuff like that. Once a city is taken, a few units from these 'reserve' armies will occupy the towns while my main forces can move on to another city (pretty much in the same turn), followed by the rest of the reserves. Only in the cases of a near destruction of a unit card do I stop and replenish my forces in their huge cities, but that will be in about 3 turns, and in 3 turns I could already have well taken at least 8 cities. Of course it is vital to give your army a pause at this stage because the full wrath of Brutii and Scipii will be upon you. But since they lost a lot of core provinces at the start attrition will be their downfall.
Heh, I actually forgot whether it was Bulgaria or Hungary... but no matter. It was crazy hard for the person concerned.

17-May-2012 13:42:46 - Last edited on 17-May-2012 13:43:36 by Englishkid62

Reaper Ben

Reaper Ben

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Yes, the main game "rules" we created by the strongest clan when I was there (At least for Mac). So they are called GG rules (Greek Gods).
No Artillery, 1 Elephant max, 2 Chariots max , 2 Horse Archers max 8 Cavalry total max, 4 Archers max, 6 of same unit max. (Chariots count as Cavalry) (Horse Archers count as Cavalry and Archer)
Well, I can't without the knowing you placement and movements, but I can tell you the weaknesses. X* First thing, you lack in cavalry. Although I have seen a few Roman armies succeed without cavalry, I prefer to use them to their full potential. Having said that, if you play on the defensive (Do not move from original position), your cavalry will become more useful since your cohorts will shield them. The heavy artillery will slow you down and force you to play on the defensive, so rushing is what you should worry about. The only problem is that once your troops are engaging the enemy, the catapults are no longer usable. You strong points though are the Urban Cohorts: not because of their strength with the sword (Although it does help) but because of the pillums (Not sure about spelling) they throw. Swords are useless against phalanx, but if you can destroy the moral and some men with the spears before your men get hit, it'll help alot.
Without knowing your strategy and positioning, I can't say for sure how I would fight you. XD But here's how I see it: onagers behind your archers, with the urban cohorts giving them protection (Either a full line or a three sided box) and your cavalry either at the back or on the sides. Correct?
Ah ok. That makes sense. What's the fastest you've completed the campaigns? (Short, long, and the whole map)
It would be even more impressive if it was Bulgaria!

18-May-2012 15:57:44

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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I usually assume defensive positions. Unless the enemy decides to camp on top of a hill, otherwise I let them move to me. This is the initial layout...
A= Archers
UC = Urban Cohorts
HO = Heavy Ornagers
HC = Heavy Cavalry
G = General
_________________...... A......_____________...... A......_________________
__________________________________________________________________
___......U C......___..........U C..........___.........U C..........***......U C......***
...C...***...C...****..........U C..........***.........U C..........****...C...***...C...
U...____...U...______...H O...__...H O...__...H O...__...H O...______...U...___...U...
____________________________________________________________________
______......H C......_____......H C......_____......G......_____......H C......_______

Urbans are on Guard formation, Archers on Skirmish mode, Heavy Ornagers on fireball mode if I have lots of time, normal mode if enemy is advancing towards me. All on fire at will.
If I'm doing attack, I will move the entire formation until my artillery is in range. And aim usually for their artillery first. Once enemy infantry engages my urban cohorts, Heavy ornagers can aim for their ranged units and cavalry usually find the time to flank their infantry units. Archers will move back behind the Urban cohorts to either stop firing or if situation permits, take out their ranged units. With help of HC the formation and UC on the sides will in turn will form an aggressive U shape, surrounding frontal enemies on three sides.
If the AI is not coming and stays put on the top of a hill, then I'm sorry. I will just use Heavy Ornagers for the entire fight. Then if no white flag comes, I will send in the outer shell of archers and urban cohorts with HC behind. Archers will fire until the last arrow. Urban cohort will fire the last javelin-things before engaging simultaneously with HC on wedge formation.
Any thoughts?

18-May-2012 18:59:04 - Last edited on 18-May-2012 19:09:41 by Englishkid62

Reaper Ben

Reaper Ben

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Seems like a pretty good attack formation to me. Here's what I would do to make it a tad bit better if you play in multiplayer that allows your army (In multiplayer because this army is far more than enough to defeat the AI).
First things first, how much money do you require for this army and where do you place that money? (Ex: Two bronze stars and a gold sword for each UC)
I assume you either have no upgrades (Meaning the army is a 10-20k army) Or the UCs have some. Either way your cavalry is underpowered. If I were you, I would either:
1: Get rid of it entirely. Although this does leave you exposed to flanking maneuvers, it also allows for more heavily armored troops to protect you from the incoming cavalry; UC beats HC in a frontal attack but not a rear attack, if your micro managing skills are fast enough, you can pretend not to see the flanking maneuvers and turn at the last possible moment when their cavalry can no longer back out of the fight and annihilate it. This technique would give you more power, but a lot less speed. Mounted Archer and Archer units would be impossible to catch while they still have missiles; but then again, that's what testudos are for (Although I do find them to be really weak in-game).
2: Keep your cavalry next to your UCs and only use them either to stop flanking or rout ranged enemy units. If you choose this tactic, you're going to have to consecrate a part of your UC army as support for you cavalry. Most armies in multiplayer have massive cavalries (Usually 8 units of it); even though on stats the Praetorian Cavalry is the strongest, it cannot beat cataphracts. Keeping your cavalry close at to your infantry will allow you to engage the enemy cavalry where you want and to provide infantry back up when both cavalries are engaged. Although this means temporarily sacrificing strength in your infantries' flank, it'll allow you to rout the enemy cavalry and retain some cavalry of your own to use when needed. (Ex: against archers).

20-May-2012 16:44:54

Englishkid62

Englishkid62

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Yeah, this formation seem able to crush any opposition the AI can offer. But it was expensive to create and maintain even in the campaign and I tend to have several of these armies of doom. It's financially draining, but gets the job done.
I never really thought about it in a multiplayer situation. Granted, seige weapons are forbidden and I don't really know how the denarii distributes and what I can get for them... so in multiplayer the army is probably much smaller and I have to devise a different formation entirely. I probably couldn't even afford this army in multiplayer anyway. Budget is quite tight. I practically have unlimited funds in the campaign in my developed stages.
So... pretend you're AI for Brutii and comes across my above Jullii army in an open field. How would you break down this formation if I insist on staying on top of a hill in a defensive formation in the corner of the map? Assume experience/morale/general are the same. What tactics would you try? :P

21-May-2012 10:22:03

Reaper Ben

Reaper Ben

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Well, the range of denarii is either 10k, 15k, or 20k. My personal favorite being 20k. I have one Seleucids army preset for the 20k. And one Egyptian for the 10k. But the rules to which army you can select are based on "First come first servered" basis.
Hum... Let me think. Since you're on a hill your range units have increased range, which means they can out shoot my archers and ornagers if I were to take some, so I might as well cross these out of the list. Three archers means that I can't take long coming up the hill. 9 Urban Cohorts means I need to engaged before they throw they spears. So I need speed and power. In a corner your cavalry is practically useless since it's movement is restricted. But that also means my cavalry can't flank. The best thing would be to draw you away from the hill, but I know you're not stupid enough to fall for any "Enemy is retreating we must kill all of them" deception. Which means I have to attack you while you are on the hill... Which Sun Tzu says never to do! XD
So far as I can figure, shock and awe seems to be the best way to go. I can't draw you out, I can't flank, I can't shoot until you die, cavalry charge would be suicide, and any weak units would just get butchered.
Alright my army would be as follows: (Sadly I have to go. I don't have enough time to complete this message! I will though when I come back! (Which in like 10-11 hours. If you don't see this message, good! If you do, well I guess you'll just have to wait and see ;*)

21-May-2012 16:21:20

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