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JLauncher needs Linux Support

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Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I wouldn't be writing this if it wasn't a huge deal but the announcement to force people to use the New "Jagex Launcher" in the future without Linux support is absolutely absurd let me explain why.

Linux has grown a lot from it's early days 10 years ago it was confusing and absolutely a nightmare to support however lately It's made great strides to make supporting it much easier there's now ways to guarantee it'll work as intended with required dependencies and much of it is really easy for the average user to do, We have Snap Packages & Flatpaks (Installers that keep an isolated instanced "sandbox" of a program with everything needed to run it). We have .AppImages which work similar to a .exe standalone launcher it contains everything needed to build and execute the program in the home (sort of like the user folder) directory. and of course there's .Jar which is insecure but also universal to anyone who is able to download JRE/JDK or OpenJRE/OpenJDK. The last option doesn't really make as much sense as the previous 4 but would allow you to improve you steam client while also providing a way for Linux users to get a trusted client.

so to summarize:
Flatpak = Instanced sandbox program installation with permissions and security
Snap = Instanced sandbox program installation with permissions and security
.AppImage = Is an universally supported Linux executable that acts as a ISO/Executable allowing for easy user installations
.Jar = Insecure but probably easier for Jagex to implement
Full Steam support = Implementing a linux client in cooperation with steam to make a fully Linux compatible option for Linux users The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

12-Jul-2023 22:01:31 - Last edited on 14-Jul-2023 02:21:25 by Glavikinn

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RuneLite supports Linux using .Jar and .AppImage and while we could run OSRS/RS3 via Steam or Lutris it's not the best option available, It could result in botched or corrupted installs, It's far less secure because Windows Viruses can attatch themselves to the launcher and result in Keyloggers being installed or worse, with little to no defence against it (in particularly extreme cases in which a virus is ready to infect Linux through Wine) The third reason, is Third party client installs may not always be trusted or updated regularly leading to exposure to malicious code that might go unnoticed until it's too late.

Finally I remind you that the Open Source Licensing is optional on linux, You are free to make proprietary software and even charge for it and the .AppImage is a Proprietary Executable in the sense that the code is not readily available to the end user much like .exe meaning if you want to keep your code out of the publics eyes so that you can better enforce security you can.

Lastly I realize that Linux is a minor OS in comparison to Mac and Windows and while the number of users is rising especially with the growing dissatisfaction with Windows OS and the release of the Steamdeck. Due to the small user base ratio it would seem developing for Linux is a poor investment, I understand that but keep in mind RuneLite has already done so with little to no problems from the beginning and by forcing users to use your client beneath the RuneLite client it's now on you to provide that compatibility. Running Wine is a last resort for many of us, Things simply don't always work or they work with crashing and bugs due to updates. Proton has come a long way but it's just a compatibility layer it's not meant to substitute for official support and often trips up "anti-cheat" possibly causing thousands of users to get banned. No one wants to lose their account to a glitch. The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

12-Jul-2023 22:01:56 - Last edited on 13-Jul-2023 01:50:25 by Glavikinn

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So in short the idea that linux doesn't need it's own executable because Wine/Proton will do it for you is just lazy and counter-productive to what you're trying to do and if you're unwilling to, even if it's never been easier please let us just use the RuneLite Client without the Jagex Launcher. That way you can retain some form of "Linux Compatibility" or maybe have RuneLite host it on linux

I have been around since RSC, I have seen the peak of RS2, The Rise and fall of legends, The Client Wars, The God Wars, The Beta of EoC, The RS3 Forced update, I was there the first month of OSRS. I've Laughed, I've Cried, I've died a little inside over this game, and I feel you've grown as a company as I have grown as a person. I've seen your worst failures and your most beloved content. There are times when you don't listen and it infuriates the player base please don't make another mistake by getting rid of linux support. It may not effect everyone but it'll effect everyone who uses linux. So please please figure this out.

Vote OS Agnostic, so that all may play enjoyably.

Thank you
A dedicated Fan The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

12-Jul-2023 22:02:19 - Last edited on 13-Jul-2023 01:53:07 by Glavikinn

BrunoNutto
Feb Member 2023

BrunoNutto

Posts: 3,328 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Espionage724 said :
OSRS works fine on Linux today. Here's my notes for Jagex Launcher: https://wiki.realmofespionage.xyz/games:wine:jagex_launcher

Jagex Launcher currently at a minimum needs a 32-bit Wine prefix. Paired with those Electron flags, the launcher is a single-process 200MB RAM app that you can close as soon as you press Play (as long as OSRS/RL/RS3 window stays open, so does the log-in session).
It doesn't get easier than that :p

Basically it's a matter of sym-linking native Linux executable to the Windows ones Jagex Launcher launches. I never would have thought that to work so directly, but I got the tip from a Reddit thread and made some notes in my usual fashion for the set-up.


Not being a Linux user myself, I don't know if this helps you in any way, but hopefully it does.

13-Jul-2023 19:30:54

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If symbolic linking the RuneLite Executable is all you have to do to that does make it much easier but you're still relying on Proton or Lutris and while I have never had a security issue with Lutris or Steam it does open you up to a line of attack, especially with Lutris, the people who manage the games are not always on top of game updates that break the installation.

For example I love playing Starcraft II, and for almost a year I've been using a mostly botched install. It works but it's suffers frame drops especially at times when there is a lot going on. That's likely due to poor translations from Direct X to DXVK (Direct X to Vulkan) when you look at the Proton/Wine Support page there are vast amounts of games that are below Gold (Gold is pretty much playable with minor issues while Bronze means it doesn't work at all really) Steam is making huge progress and while at times it only takes switching Proton/Wine versions and maybe a few launch options to run perfectly that is not always the case and sometimes requires installing additional dependencies that may not be available in a Linux variant (for example .Net used to be a major issue but has been largely resolve)

The 2nd Reason I maintain that we still need a Linux executable is the sheer ban rate in multiplayer games especially in games with Anti-Cheat SC2 doesn't have Anti-Cheat or it's not very invasive but trying to play Overwatch for example is extremely difficult to get running not only because it causes frame drops and such, but because if you bypass it or modify it in any sort of way that's grounds for ban, many multiplayer games have banned Linux users for mistaking it as a cheat utility by forcing us to rely on something that fundamentally doesn't work on the multiplayer setting they are now in the position to ban players mistakenly there are ways to detect if it's running through wine/proton but it's not a position i wanna be in as a player. The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

14-Jul-2023 02:04:38 - Last edited on 14-Jul-2023 03:18:24 by Glavikinn

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd rather just avoid any potential problems in the future or any potentially malicious code that might occur from downloading from unknown sources. However pro-active Lutris is in their policies that prevent malicious code from being distributed. Linux also needs more native support from games steam has done a ton of the work providing games taking it upon themselves to improve compatibility layers and encouraging more companies to produce native Linux versions of the game. Linux as a whole has made great strides to make it easier to develop software and games for Linux. The community has been working largely without pay so that they can have a great OS and each of us does our part, but when it comes to games we can't do it because it's proprietary copyrighted software. The Linux community needs the help of developers now. We realize we're underdogs, and we're the minority in the OS world, we just want fair treatment. Linux is at the point now where it actually runs as good if not better than Windows or Mac in most cases. We have software but when it comes to proprietary software it's out of our hands all we can do is try to work with what we have hints Wine/Proton, but if developers develop for Linux then it's a smoother experience for everyone.

That's why I say support OS Agnosticism, It shouldn't matter what you play on, just that you enjoy playing it on the OS of your choice.

More companies are taking Linux seriously mostly because of the backing of Steam and the tireless effort we put into improving and polishing, Especially since the Steamdeck is a huge success showing the world Linux, in a lot of cases for the first time. We have a long road ahead of us but we're not going anywhere. The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

14-Jul-2023 02:53:34 - Last edited on 14-Jul-2023 03:23:51 by Glavikinn

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Linux growing so rapidly often leads to the idea that Linux is simply too fast growing and things are constantly being changed and removed, so why develop for it? While that may be somewhat true, we realized this and have been working to ensure that every piece of software remains usable and easy to deploy across all flavors. This has resulted in Flatpak, Snap, and .AppImage which can be run on all flavors of Linux. However it's still growing as is Windows, as is Mac non of it is subject to remain exactly the same; especially in the case of Mac.

So yeah, I realize this might be a bit difficult, I'm not a developer but I understand budgeting, and not wanting to cater to a platform that has far less users, and is relatively new to you. But I truly believe this is the best course of action for all those involved. For security, for enjoyability, and for freedom.

And lastly, When you put months or years into your account, you really don't like gambling with it, or taking anyone's word that things "will be fine." because often those are famous last words. There is acceptable risk and unacceptable risk and right now we're sitting in the unacceptable territory due to the sheer time investment and dedication. It'd be like a friend telling you that their money just got doubled at the GE by a player and the only thing you have to do is trade more than 10m sure It might be fine. But when the player runs off with your cash all you can do is blame yourself and try to report them for scamming knowing full well you took a risk. Whether or not 10m is acceptable loss depends on the person almost always it isn't. Just like this... The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

14-Jul-2023 03:14:40 - Last edited on 14-Jul-2023 03:45:56 by Glavikinn

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,183 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jagex Launcher aimed for Jagex Accounts and safety. Taking risks and gambling don't seem to fit this agenda, especially when there are probably very, very few players who are on Linux through Runelite and only for OSRS. I doubt many Linux users don't have phones and PC anyway. They can easily switch to supported systems under Jagex Launcher.

14-Jul-2023 17:07:47

Glavikinn
Nov Member 2023

Glavikinn

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Jagex Launcher aimed for Jagex Accounts and safety. Taking risks and gambling don't seem to fit this agenda, especially when there are probably very, very few players who are on Linux through Runelite and only for OSRS. I doubt many Linux users don't have phones and PC anyway. They can easily switch to supported systems under Jagex Launcher.

well excusing your ignorance of what a PC is and how much Linux users hate Windows with extreme passion for everything it stands for, or the fact that many users simply don't always wanna play on their phone when they can use a mouse and keyboard. I have some statistics for you which can be found with a little research...

Usage of operating system shares:

For desktop and laptop computers, Microsoft's Windows is the most used at 69%, followed by Apple's macOS at 17%, and Google's ChromeOS at 3.2% (in the US up to 8.0%), and "desktop Linux" at 2.9%. In addition, 5% is attributed to "unknown" operating systems - which are likely forms of BSD or obscure varieties of Linux.

non Windows/Mac users make up 14% of the PC Market Place (11.1% confirmed Psuedo-Linux) with Mac only taking up 17%. Of those users 1.38% of them play games on Linux while only 2.48% of users game on Mac and that was just in 2022. Windows users make a majority of the PC users and Gamers, However Mac being widely supported while Linux isn't doesn't make a ton of sense if you were to convert those into actual users you'd be looking at millions of people per 1% (if i had to ballpark over 25M per 1%) All we ask for is for a native client many of us would rather use RuneLite anyways but if we're forced to use the new Jagex Launcher then atleast make it native so we don't suffer performance issues, security issues, getting banned or flat out having our game break resulting in sometimes months of being unable to play. Have a small team develop it...

We just want to be treated fairly... The Linuxian Sage has spoken.

14-Jul-2023 23:36:49 - Last edited on 15-Jul-2023 01:18:40 by Glavikinn

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