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IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
On December 26th, 2022 I received a 2 day ban on this account, an Ironman on OSRS, for Bot Busting (Moderate). I sent an appeal shortly upon finding out I was banned and it was denied on Jan 2nd with no comment, after the ban period was over. Admittedly the appeal was poor: I sent very quickly after being banned, only stated my most recent in-game activities and didn't realize it was uneditable. This is the only blackmark I have received on any account since I started playing in 2006.

I have surveyed the Rules on Macroing multiple times before both and after this incident, and I have read the relevant stickies on this subforum. I understand both the existence of the ban and the denial of the appeal on it means three separate Jagex Moderators have looked at multiple pieces of evidence and somehow all three came to the conclusion that the ban was justified. I understand the appeal being denied means that no further discussion will be held with regards to the ban. I understand that the evidence and explanation as to what triggered the ban will not be provided as it being provided could also real malicious parties to learn how to sneak past.

Despite understanding all three of those facts, I'm still looking for some more closure of some sort that has been provided, as I am essentially in a situation where this 2 day ban on one account a month ago has brought into question my ability to play and enjoy this game at all on any account. I did not knowingly use any macros and care enough about game integrity that I have refused to use Runelite even though it is approved and very popular: I simply still don't feel it is 100% safe interacting with the game server using clients that aren't entirely within Jagex's sphere, and certainly even less so now that I have really received an unexplained macroing ban anyways. With no solid clue on what I did that was considered wrong, I am unsure of how to play in a way that I know I am regarded as obeying the rules.

CONTINUED...

24-Jan-2023 23:12:23 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2023 04:23:13 by IronRiemann

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Since this ban the only RuneScape either RS3 or OSRS I have played is some brief scans of the account for any evidence of a hacker right after the ban ended, and some playing on my OSRS Fresh Start World account FreeFossil that is intended to be entirely F2P, and even then primarily to discuss this affair with clan members. It is possible I was hacked and the hijacker used illegal 3rd party software, but if I was hacked, it would appear all my items and wealth were completely untouched and the hijacker did nothing but bot in a way that did not seem to change my account in any way I could see, so I feel this unlikely. Regardless, as part of my reaction to this incident I have removed the Steam connection to my account (after hearing that could be used to bypass 2FA) and did a change of password. In addition, both this account and my RS3 main from 2006 that has been mostly inactive since 2017 but still had membership have both been made F2P to be lower hijack targets and out of my current unwillingness to play actively.

I had been playing this account on two devices: a MacBook Pro on 10.14.5 Mojave and an iPhone XR 16.1.1, the former only on the vanilla client and the Mac Version of the Jagex Steam Client (mostly the latter upon its release), and on the iPhone only on the Mobile App. On the MacBook I had only used a regular apple mouse and the trackpad, no autoclickers, no rubber bands, no dunking birds, nothing like that, and similarly the iPhone I just used the touch screen as usual. While scrambling looking for any way to understand why I was banned, I noticed that the minimum Mac version listed for using the Steam Client was Big Sur 11, which is above the 10.14.5 I was using: I was not aware of this before the ban and I had never experienced any noticeable issues using the Steam Client on Mojave. I have since upgraded my computer to Ventura 13.1.

CONTINUED...

24-Jan-2023 23:13:10 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2023 23:14:46 by IronRiemann

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
My current leading theory is that some aspect of the Mac Version of the Steam Client could have been falsely detected as being from an illegal 3rd party client. If this is true, that would be a bug in Jagex's own systems and other players using it could be at risk and this warrants further investigation. The rather ancedotal, but still interesting, evidence I have for this theory is that, with some heavy searching of the Internet, I have only managed to find two references to anyone actually playing the Mac Version of the Steam Client since its release tucked into the "Other Changes" section on September 14th, 2022: me and one other person on Reddit claiming to have suddenly obtained an unexplained 2 day ban only 9 days before mine: I PMed this other player on Reddit and they said they were on 12.4 at the time, so if both this theory and their testimony is true this might suggest that me being below the Big Sur minimum at the time may not be related.

Checking the "players currently playing" counts, it seems around 1% of active players are using the Steam Client at any given time, and I suppose it is likely that far less than 50% of that 1% are Mac users seeing as the Mac version was obscurely announced and much newer. I would estimate the number of active users of the Mac Version of the Steam Client is a high three digit or low four digit number, but I admit it could be a very different number than these estimates. But, given its obscurity, and the fact that two different people from this very small group have claimed a similar experience, it makes some sense to me that an issue with an aspect of it being detected as 3rd party in some context could have gone unnoticed. In the small amounts of time I have played since the ban I have only used the vanilla client, I have unconnected from Steam entirely and have not played on mobile either.

CONTINUED...

24-Jan-2023 23:13:36 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2023 23:35:53 by IronRiemann

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
On the other hand, "some other guy on Reddit" might not be the best source for things, and it feels very strange that it could ever be possible that highly noticeable-to-players bots at bosses could go undetected for extended periods while a user of Jagex's own software could get flagged, but I just have no other strong ideas on how this situation occurred and am quite desperate for any clues for both my sake and the sake of other players who may end up in a similar scenario. I have a "hopeful bias" towards this theory since it is the one that is most likely to have a happy ending if it is true, as Jagex could publicly acknowledge it without compromising their detection algorithms and I and other users who received similar bans would know the Steam Client was at fault and could be avoided to prevent being banned again. If an obscure aspect of my setup I am unaware of even after rigorously going through the botting rules was either wrongly detected as rule-breaking or was really rule-breaking, then I'm most likely just completely out of luck on ever really knowing what I can do to play.

I was playing Universal Paperclips and Trimps on my browser in the background the day before the ban, idle games that some people have been known to use autoclickers for but never me, but I suspect whatever "triggered" the ban was from before, but I'm just giving every piece of potentially relevant info. The day before I was playing on a Wi-Fi I had not played on in months (in my appeal I messed up the grammar a bit and it may have sounded like "hadn't played in months" rather than "hadn't played that Wi-Fi in months", the second is correct the first is wrong, I'm worried Jagex misinterpreted). I had been doing a lot of low focus Karambwan fishing the week before on my phone while watching TV and doing other things on my computer, including during times of day I do not normally play on, which could have somehow gotten a flag too I suppose.

CONTINUED...

24-Jan-2023 23:13:58 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2023 23:23:02 by IronRiemann

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I suspect, unfortunately, the most likely endgame is that no further details will ever arise on this affair and I'll just never know how this happened. If that is so, I suppose I could just start playing again on the vanilla client sometime later, with all other apps on my computer closed, and hope that whatever I did that led to the ban is no longer in effect. But, I'm posting this here if any community members have other ideas on how this situation could be handled or other pieces of advice. I am willing to answer any further questions.

EDIT: I have never used a VPN.

24-Jan-2023 23:14:13 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2023 23:45:10 by IronRiemann

Kibe Max
Mar Member 2024

Kibe Max

Posts: 42 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@IronRiemann

I read your entire statement and statement of the facts and how you took care to be careful and read the rules so as not to make mistakes.
But I went through a similar situation where I play on 4 accounts in the same way for all of them. I was banned on February 25, 2022 on 4 accounts after opening my complaint and appeal, I answered 1 and the other 3 remained banned.

We don't know the extent to which the moderators apply their empathy to the game and analyze player cases accurately as I also know that I didn't use any bots. And my punishment couldn't be permanent MACROING MAJOR.

Finally, if we are not welcome to play as a player. that only the real bots are playing because there is little point in saying that they have reached the goal of 300 million accounts created and that they have no empathy for the users.

Finally, as there is no criterion for a friendly analysis between player and moderator, any of the following and alleged analysis could have led to your banishment without explanation.
Like for example this criterion that is subjugated as MAJOR MACRO
- Hides or supports the hiding of any of the adverts on our website.
Criterion above is conjugated within the rule:
MACROING AND THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE/HARDWARE
And if they decided that you could supposedly be using it, unfortunately the moderating dictators made the decision to ban you. I've been out of the game for 333 days, I used to do live every day and play every day. hello i'm
KiBiM
. Also known as
Kibe.

Streaming for over 4 years on
twitch
and playing since 2005.
ttv/kibim

I am currently very happy to have been able to get back in the game.

25-Jan-2023 01:19:25

2_Tron

2_Tron

Posts: 23,025 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@IronRiemann, if you do receive a '
2 day ban
' it means that you have received a '
warning ban
', to warn you to stop what you are doing as you obviously are breaking the Rules of RuneScape and/or breaking Terms & Conditions.
Those warning-bans are '
not appealable
' but have to be taken seriously as there isn't going to be another warning-ban other than a permanent ban if you do not heed said warning.

Looking to other players story is something you should have to avoid as that will not be helpful in any case.

The thing to check is;

- do I use a standard computer with standard hardware/software for playing RuneScape
- do I use a standard Operating System without illegal software that helps me play RuneScape
- do I avoid using other software that interacts with Jagex's Servers without having consent from Jagex/JMods to use such software simultaniously during playing RuneScape

25-Jan-2023 20:54:27

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@2_Tron

The exact issue that has me knocked out of playing for a month is that I have no clue how I am breaking the rules or the terms and conditions, and thus I have no idea what needs to change to "heed" said warning: I've searched pretty high and low, using similar thought processes than those I use in my professional work in Software QA Engineering, and the only unnatural part of my setup was running the official Mac Version of the OSRS Steam Client on an operating system I was not aware was below the stated technical minimum (Big Sur 11 vs. 10.14.5 Mojave). I have disconnected my account from Steam (which also avoids potential security issues) and upgraded to Ventura, meaning if this was what caused the issue I am safe now, but if that's the issue that's a high-priority bug with the Jagex-run Steam Client that leaves me worried for the sake of others.

- do I use a standard computer with standard hardware/software for playing RuneScape? I was using the Official Mac Steam Client on a 10.14.5 2019 15-Inch MacBook Pro, which was below the Big Sur 11 minimum listed for using the Steam Client I was unaware of. This is the only strange thing about my setup and why I am latching on to it as being the potential culprit. Standard apple mouse.
- do I use a standard Operating System without illegal software that helps me play RuneScape? See above.
- do I avoid using other software that interacts with Jagex's Servers without having consent from Jagex/JMods to use such software simultaniously during playing RuneScape? Nothing that I would be aware that interacts with Jagex's servers or affects my playing of RuneScape at all. Only other software would be activities in my computer browser or iPhone that have no relation to RuneScape and also shouldn't cause any changes to mouse or input controls.

Yeah, the other player's testimony is not strong evidence, as I stated, but I'm just trying to put everything possibly relevant in.

25-Jan-2023 21:31:40 - Last edited on 25-Jan-2023 21:46:28 by IronRiemann

IronRiemann

IronRiemann

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@2_Tron I haven't been logged into the game more than a few minutes since the ban, haven't gained experience or items on any account, only clan chat discussions and sanity checks of my account's state for evidence of a hack, so I don't think me not having been banned again is a proper gauge that aspect of my playing was detected as 3rd party is no longer in effect.

26-Jan-2023 15:38:56 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2023 15:40:06 by IronRiemann

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