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Guardians of the Rift

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Mike Lt
Apr Member 2007

Mike Lt

Posts: 2,992 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
First off, this minigame looks cool. I'd love for it to be added. But I feel like this does not fix one of the core issues with Runecraft: It is not a very good way to get runes. Specifically, "classic" runecrafting sucks. Zeah runecrafting is fine as it is.

The only worthwhile runes to craft are double nats and wraths. These require 91 and 95 RC respectively. Considering how much effort it takes to get that level, I'd say even those are a tad underwhelming.

Even as an Ironman, it is much faster to just get runes from shops. I would hope that you might take some measures to improve this. Some possible ideas:

* In 2009 an updated was implemented that increased the amount of runes crafted between multiple-rune levels. This made progression feel a bit more natural and would be a nice way to slightly increase the yield from RC. (Wouldn't apply to Zeah altars)
* Maybe consider slightly increasing the rune costs in shops. Also remove runes from the NMZ reward shop.
* This one surely is controversial, but... let us craft essence without removing it from a pouch. Emptying pouches is a mechanic that nobody really enjoys.
* For elemental, mind and body runes, increase the base modifier to x2.

26-Jan-2022 17:55:55

Lewis Shoot
Oct Member 2005

Lewis Shoot

Posts: 3,825 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lets start with the quest.
- It sounds like a fun way of unlocking the minigame, however since you already need enter the abyss to start, which rewards 1k rc xp, I think 5k rc xp is way too rewarding. Either put a 27 RC requirement on the quest or lower the reward down to 1-2k xp.
- The reason I say this is to get the player doing some normal runecrafting. the 2k xp reward would unlock fire runes which is a nice easy training method they can do to unlock the minigame.

Minigame
Pros
- This will bring variety to the skill
- This will bring some bank saving items to the skill

Cons
- Considering the amount of rewards available, I think the XP rates are way too rewarding and I suspect this will kill ZMI for most non iron players, possibly irons too - ZMI is currently a nice middle ground between money making and fast XP. This minigame will take that place and be more rewarding!

I have a few questions.
- Does this mean there is a really close bank on/in the wizards tower? That feels like it would quicken a lot of early game content.
- Will the portal talisman work outside the minigame? That could speed up certain runecrafting methods
- Since the blood/catalytic talisman will be available. Will we be able to make blood runes at the True altar with pure essence? Will the abyss teleport us to the True blood altar?

Misc
- Pet idea: A transmog for the rune guardian pet, to look like the one from RS3. I always like that pet.
- RC outfit: Does every skill need an outfit? This version sounds quite OP, with both XP boost and more runes. I think the player should choose which effect they want active.
- Colossal pouch: Does this replace the existing pouches or can you use all 5 together? Also level 85 to use this seems fairly low. Considering the massive pouch in RS3, I'd suggest at least level 90 or 95 to use it.
- Omni talisman/tiara: I suppose the outfit with talismans may replace this, but I want to throw the idea out there. I never saw it as OP, more of a bank saver
RIP Forums :(
Finally we have signatures in the surprise forum update. I'm Lewis, I play Old School & I've been playing since 2005.

27-Jan-2022 09:17:30

Lewis Shoot
Oct Member 2005

Lewis Shoot

Posts: 3,825 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For me I will be voting no. This disrupts the fairly well balanced eco system of RC too much. Nats/Laws/Deaths are good money but bad XP, lavas are good XP but bad money and ZMI is the middle ground. This minigame will take over that middle ground, give more money and reward the player even more.
I think Zeah RC already disrupts the eco system too much, with good XP, okay money and being very AFK.

Like I mentioned in my last comment, I think the XP from this minigame should be lowered, to account for all the additional rewards coming from the minigame. Perhaps 20-45k an hour?

Unfortunately for me, I suspect this will pass because "RC bad".
RIP Forums :(
Finally we have signatures in the surprise forum update. I'm Lewis, I play Old School & I've been playing since 2005.

27-Jan-2022 09:28:32

Mike Lt
Apr Member 2007

Mike Lt

Posts: 2,992 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lewis, you seem to have missed the fact that this minigame will requure attention, whereas ZMI is semi-afk and doesn't really require any strategy or thought. Especially since you ca run to the altar in a single click nowadays.

I would *assume* the bank is only available after the new quest is completed, which I think is fine. The blog is not 100% clear on this though.

As for the xp reward, 5000 does seem pretty generous for what appears to be a novice quest. That's the same as Fremmenik Exiles, Lunar Diplomacy and Devious Minds, even though those all have significally higher requirements.

(But then again, Knight's Sword exists..,)

27-Jan-2022 11:37:33 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2022 11:39:42 by Mike Lt

Lewis Shoot
Oct Member 2005

Lewis Shoot

Posts: 3,825 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yes ZMI is more AFK these days, which makes bloods superior in almost all scenarios except for XP. If this mingame were to be introduced, it would completely dominate the niche ZMI currently fulfils along with more rewards. This feels very off for only medium intensity. RIP Forums :(
Finally we have signatures in the surprise forum update. I'm Lewis, I play Old School & I've been playing since 2005.

27-Jan-2022 12:30:40

Jagua
Mar Member 2024

Jagua

Posts: 22 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I like the proposed update quite a bit, though I think the Abyssal Lantern seems a bit superfluous. Since only the Redwood logs grant the effect of not having your pouches degrade during the minigame, this is ultimately the only type of log that will be used to light the lantern. Would it not be more interesting to not have pouches degrade during the minigame and instead focus on the effects by themselves so that people will not be forced into this Redwood log choice for the utility of pouches not degrading?

Also, I do not see a strong reason why the creation of an Omni tiara should not be possible when both the elemental and catalytic talisman are obtained (combining these). Depending on how the minigame plays out, this might it make it bit more straightforward due to the removal of switching between required talismans / tiaras for crafting runes.
Road to max ongoing!

27-Jan-2022 13:32:04 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2022 13:34:38 by Jagua

Lewis Shoot
Oct Member 2005

Lewis Shoot

Posts: 3,825 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I know I'm in the minority for liking runecrafting but reading the revised blog does not fill me with hope. It's not exactly the same but I can see parallels to runespan in RS3. Fast XP for little/no GP, the only upside compared to runespan is that this will require some player attention.

I don't think increasing the XP is necessary because the minigame already offers so many other rewards (not just GP) that boost every other runecrafting method. With XP rates sitting just under the maximum efficiency of lava runes, there will be nearly no reason to do any other runecrafting.
- The niche ZMI fills will be wiped out
- Lavas will only be done by the most efficient players because for any slightly slower player the minigame is better
- Zeah RC will only be done by iron men to get runes, although shop scape is probably still faster
- Normal RC seems untouched, however, like with runespan in rs3, it will unleash more players onto the content with boosts to how many runes they can craft. Flooding runes into the market, causing them to crash and these methods to lower in GP per hour, which is currently their main benefit.

I don't like to say this but this update seems incredibly badly thought out for how it effects the runecrafting eco system. It's just aimed at people that hate the skill, but if they don't like it they don't have to train it.
It's such a shame because adding a new training method will add some much needed variety to the skill. It just needs to be carefully balanced in the eco system.
RIP Forums :(
Finally we have signatures in the surprise forum update. I'm Lewis, I play Old School & I've been playing since 2005.

27-Jan-2022 17:44:11

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,053 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
First off, this minigame looks cool. I'd love for it to be added. But I feel like this does not fix one of the core issues with Runecraft: It is not a very good way to get runes. Specifically, "classic" runecrafting sucks. Zeah runecrafting is fine as it is.

The only worthwhile runes to craft are double nats and wraths. These require 91 and 95 RC respectively. Considering how much effort it takes to get that level, I'd say even those are a tad underwhelming.

Even as an Ironman, it is much faster to just get runes from shops. I would hope that you might take some measures to improve this. Some possible ideas:

* In 2009 an updated was implemented that increased the amount of runes crafted between multiple-rune levels. This made progression feel a bit more natural and would be a nice way to slightly increase the yield from RC. (Wouldn't apply to Zeah altars)
* Maybe consider slightly increasing the rune costs in shops. Also remove runes from the NMZ reward shop.
* This one surely is controversial, but... let us craft essence without removing it from a pouch. Emptying pouches is a mechanic that nobody really enjoys.
* For elemental, mind and body runes, increase the base modifier to x2.

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27-Jan-2022 19:35:56

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