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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I already told you many times
"The Legislative Department of a state/country doesn't represent the LAW of the country. It is only a part of the LAW."


Netherlands never even mentioned anything about loot boxes being illegal or banned at all. That's the fact. They never said they are going after anybody at all. They only asked to talk to 4 out of the many games they investigated. They even refused to name them. They also cleared at least 6 developers from anything related to loot boxes already. Crystal clear.

EU said nothing at all. Repeating the same "soon", "soon", "soon" doesn't matter at all.
You better tell us "when?", "when?", "when?" and "what?", "what?" "what?" to "who?", "who", "who?"
. :D :D :D

I am not here to argue about hypothetical events and personal beliefs . I am here to discuss with facts, facts and nothing but facts. :D :D :D

Governments need time to implement Laws but if they are really LAWS they will need to tell everybody what they are, when will they happen and to whom they concerns? Who don't understand laws? Well, we should all know. :D :D :D

BTW, didn't all those people already reported loot boxes have been banned in Belgium in Novermber 2017 already? How come Belgium "banned" them again almost 6 months later and developers are all still running them and all the players in Belgium can still sell them?

Hercule Poirot: "We should all use our Little Grey Cells, mon ami"
:D :D :D :D :D :D

02-May-2018 17:48:32

Miu

Miu

Posts: 16,955 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ashlin107 said :
But you didn't say why these games are being called illegal although there are no laws around them as you claim. Again Belgium is just going after the larger games first. Then when that's all said and done they'll naturally move on to smaller companies like Jagex. That's how law enforcement works take out the big offenders before moving onto the small time offenders.

As for the Netherlands well that doesn't change the fact they are going after those publishers or that Belgium are hot on their heels as well. Soon the rest of the EU will follow suit too.

But it would seem your unwilling to argue about this or are unable to. But that won't change the fact that governments are working against Loot Boxes.

As for "it takes time". You don't understand how laws are implemented do you? Governments need to give people time adapt to laws particularly when businesses are involved since they'd need rewrite their plans to make sure they are in line the new laws and make the necessary changes. That goes double for the gaming industry. Since getting rid of loot boxes isn't as simple as highlighting the code that relates to loot boxes and pressing backspace.

Well said.
Don't forget – RuneScape members get TWO free spins a day instead of the usual one!

02-May-2018 19:27:42

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"In a newly published forecast of the global game market, Juniper Research concedes that developers are "effectively encouraging a form of in-game gambling" with loot boxes and using that addictive potential to "extend both the lifecycle and engagement of games titles to their audience." These kinds of non-traditional money-making techniques are a practical necessity for developers squeezed by increasing costs and stagnant or declining up-front game prices, Juniper says."


Source: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/05/despite-backlash-loot-boxes-could-be-essential-to-gamings-future/

Sorry, like what Jagex said on the Monetization thread, TH is a pratical necessity for them squeezed by increasing costs and stagnant or declining upfront game prices. :D :D :D

"one analyst sees spending on loot boxes increasing by over 62 percent in the next four years to become a $47 billion piece of the industry. By then, loot boxes will represent over 29 percent of all spending on digital games, the analyst said, up from just under 25 percent currently."


People are expected to spend 62% more on loot boxes over the next 4 years too.

02-May-2018 21:28:34

Miu

Miu

Posts: 16,955 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
"one analyst sees spending on loot boxes increasing by over 62 percent in the next four years to become a $47 billion piece of the industry. By then, loot boxes will represent over 29 percent of all spending on digital games, the analyst said, up from just under 25 percent currently."


People are expected to spend 62% more on loot boxes over the next 4 years too.

That's what one analyst said. That's not a crystal ball. If you're not willing to discuss what's likely to happen in terms of legislation in the future, then why are you discussing one person 's opinion on something that hasn't even happened yet?

I advise you stick to your own mantra: Dilbert2001 said :
I am not here to argue about hypothetical events and personal beliefs . I am here to discuss with facts, facts and nothing but facts. :D :D :D
Don't forget – RuneScape members get TWO free spins a day instead of the usual one!

03-May-2018 02:56:40 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 02:57:27 by Miu

Ashlin107

Ashlin107

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Still doesn't explain why they are threatening fines and jail time if Loot Boxes aren't illegal in Belgium. Deny it all you want but fact remains Loot Boxes are illegal in Belgium and some of the more aggressive Loot Boxes have their date of execution in the Netherlands.

As for the "talks" between the Netherlands government. Well yes but they could be either be giving these game developers a warning that if they don't change they'll press charges or they could just be getting straight down to business and discussing sanctions.

As for the EU well considering that two of their members are already actively trying to solve the Loot Box problem and many more are putting together their plan of attack. So it's safe to assume that the EU as a whole will put in their two cents at some point.

Also Belgium have already clearly highlighted why they consider Loot Boxes illegal. As I said companies need to time to get rid of Loot Boxes. It even took EA many months to fully get rid of Loot Boxes in Battlefront II although that Loot Box system was more integrated into the core gameplay than most. So it'll be at least another month or so before we see what these companies will do.

As for the games being called out six months ago. What are you on about? They only just their investigations and publicly put forward their verdict within the past week.

As for your person claiming Loot Box sales are expected to go up. Well they are just one person as Miu said above. Also they clearly aren't taking into account that publishers are being more cautious with these practices or all the governments across the globe that are getting ready to take action against these practices.

As for your little sentence about arguing the facts. That's funny considering the facts are only what you want them to be it seems. Again as Miu said practice what you preach. Or risk being called out for being the hypocrite you are. The statement below is false.
The statement above is true.

03-May-2018 11:34:55

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Actual law enforcement don't threaten people. If no action is taken. That "law" is not being enforced. There have always been public "warnings" that certain things like drinking, smoking or even some foods can be dangerous to our health but when laws are actually broken, companies will be charged and brought to court with definitive actions stopping them from selling said "dangerous" products.

No legal actions have been taken by the Belgium to any company, not even to the 3 games they named. They only asked to talk with the companies that own these games. Enough said.

Loot boxes have previously been reported as gambling in Belgium by many game journalists in November, 2017. They said declared as gambling, not just Belgium was investigating them. Some examples:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/belgium-denounces-loot-boxes-as-gambling-hawaiian-legislator-calls-them-predatory/

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe.455056735/

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/11/21/belgium-finished-loot-box-investigation-deemed-gambling/

It is clear that these journalists have failed to realize Belgium hasn't done with their investigation with loot boxes in November, let alone banning them.

Note that Juniper Research is not just one person. They are a renowned market research in the game industry. The figures they provided is not an estimate. It is from surveys done with game developers, much like Superdata and the GDC research that showed 500 developers will continue to go with loot boxes. However, it is not Bible. It is a reference.

Ladies and gentlemen, please take a look at the very first post of this thread. I truly believe OP wrote this thread based on revenue, profits, etc... that's the financial aspects of TH to Jagex, not legislation. We should know what are the key points to discuss and what not, right? :D :D :D

03-May-2018 15:30:53 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 15:48:16 by Dilbert2001

0815

0815

Posts: 5,208 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said :
This thread still going....

Shesh.

Yes, sadly it is.


As for the topic: As long as there are customers who are buying there will be Treasure Hunter content. Those in favour of TH, continue buying, those against, stop buying. At the end of the year the numbers matter.

As for that legal babble: Nothing will change. If it is going to EU court, the gaming industry will pull a settle out of their hat.

And combining both: Personally I would appreciate if accounts had a switch that allows parents to turn off any kind of MTX content, but I doubt that Jagex would do this without pressure from any form of legislation or ruling.
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2018 FIFA World Cup Russia™
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03-May-2018 17:26:53

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As I mentioned several times, the reason loot boxes exist in many games is because there are buyers, a lot of them in fact particularly in Asian and even Africa. It is naive to assume companies won't produce things that customers demand. So, TH is going to stay for sure, and will only be stronger as prominent market searchers and analysts of the game industry conceded.

I am not going to address legal issues here in details since there is already a thread for that recently in the General Forums. That's the place to go if somebody are really serious: Quick find code: 14-15-727-66007918

As a BTW on that legal "crusade" some unhappy players fight for, they better realize their losing battle have already lost in the US as the Hawaiian and Washington Bills have been thrown into the shredder in March already. Nobody even wanted to look at them. No support at all and they didn't even meet the deadline. That's the key point - the actual US lawmakers simply have no interests regardless how many more loot box bills are introduced. :D :D :D

The more interesting and practical thing developers may do is to be ethical when promoting loot boxes. They should not promote them as the main content of the games. I think RS is doing very well in that aspect. The game is promoted all the way as a fun adventure with 18 years of content in various categories, not a casino with only games of chance but nothing else. :D :D :D

03-May-2018 17:49:28 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 18:06:43 by Dilbert2001

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