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Lords: "Loot Boxes = Gambling"

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The House of Lords has clarified their stance:

"However, the repot does not necessarily call for loot boxes to be banned, as they have been in Belgium and the Netherlands, and instead suggests that they, and related concepts such as FIFA player packs,
should be explicitly described as ‘games of chance’
. That should at the very least mean that any game with loot boxes in it, including sports titles, would be classified as 18-rated. Which should at least put off a few parents."


https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/02/loot-boxes-are-gambling-says-house-lords-calls-regulation-12934610/

FYI, the House or Lords is only recommending a "Game of Chance" label to be added to loot boxes in the UK. Nothing spectacular at all as we have seen ESRA and PEGI done similar things to games in the USA and Europe. As for its influence to Jagex or other video games? I really don't see they have any problem doing that even if the recommendation of the House of Lords falls on deaf ears.

02-Jul-2020 15:44:20

ProleVan

ProleVan

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I think any substantive change to the regulation of games of chance inside games will focus on two aspects, (1) real world currency exchange for direct entry in to the game and (2) the effective rate of access to the game of chance.

In the first instance any new law (or incorporation in to existing law) will be primarily aimed at stopping vulnerable people from paying excessive amounts of real money for access to the gambling option. I don't believe this affects OSRS, RS3's Squeal of Fortune might be dead as a dodo though.

In the second instance I don't believe clue scroll reward caskets would fall afoul of any legislation relevant to the rate of access of the game of chance. Gambling, in "look and feel" (from the House of Lords' report) does not include the completion of a 20 minute minigame in order to reach the game of chance element of the minigame to any reasonable person. It also does not include the inability to access the minigame at will - gambling in "look and feel" must include the ability to enter the game of chance upon choosing to do so. Receiving a clue scroll drop is random. Entry in to the game of chance therefore is not controlled by the player and is effectively invite only.

As for the game of chance itself, the reward casket, as no entry fee is required and the access to the casket not immediate I do not believe it would be regarded as gambling by any reasonable person which is usually the basis of UK law, and if it did fall afoul of any new law it would either be an excessively undefined law or an unfortunate happenstance which can simply be avoided by generating the reward upon receipt of the clue scroll and listing the reward before the player completes any task. This might sound silly, but since a player can only have once of each difficulty scroll at a time the player must grind through the obby cape rewards before he or she can get to the 3a rewards. The process is no different, there's just no sense of excitement while grinding a cape.

02-Jul-2020 18:26:26

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
ProleVan said :
I think any substantive change to the regulation of games of chance inside games will focus on two aspects, (1) real world currency exchange for direct entry in to the game and (2) the effective rate of access to the game of chance.

In the first instance any new law (or incorporation in to existing law) will be primarily aimed at stopping vulnerable people from paying excessive amounts of real money for access to the gambling option. I don't believe this affects OSRS, RS3's Squeal of Fortune might be dead as a dodo though.


They are not talking about any "substantive change to the regulation of game of chance". They are not talking about changing Gambling Act 2005. They are talking about adding a Game of Chance label to loot boxes, much like what UK's peers USA and EU have done. I can see the reason there because of Brexit. When UK leaves EU, their games no longer falls into the provision of PEGI so they may need their own in-game-purchase label.

(1) real world currency exchange for direct entry in to the game and (2) the effective rate of access to the game of chance are definitely not being talked out in this Lord Report.

Existing laws already cover physical card games like Pokemon and Magic the Gathering as well as Trading Cards in Baseball and such. These are all games of chance, not difference to loot boxes even if they are getting such a label of Game of Chance.

While the consideration of loot boxes being labeled Game of Chance doesn't directly affect OSRS, some of the other 65 recommendations in the Lord Report cover gambling, yes casino type of gambling and not just Game of Chance, between individual with real world implication. In those cases, Duel Arena are clearly flagged and this game feature exists in OSRS too. the UKGC is also looking at this way more serious real world gambling issue.

02-Jul-2020 18:52:33

GhostlyBard

GhostlyBard

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Aeroxmaster said :
What are everyone's thoughts on this, and its potential implications for RuneScape?

Its a step in the right direction.
Runescape has bonds, paid subscriptions, premium paid subscriptions, yak track, mtx cosmetics, limited time mtx events. It can survive without Alice & her ‘gambling but not really because of technicalities shenanigans.
Not that Alice will be going anywhere she’s already been altered to be more amenable.
Business as usual.
Check out Thieves guild layout redesign. Happy ‘scaping

02-Jul-2020 20:06:15 - Last edited on 02-Jul-2020 20:16:08 by GhostlyBard

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
GhostlyBard said :

Business as usual.


Yes, business as usual to Jagex in their MTX front, regardless they are TH, SGS, RuneCoins or Bonds. Don't forget Jagex is also implementing parental control which will allow parents to control how much their children can spend and how long they can play in RS3 and OSRS. If parents can't control their kids, it will be their own faults. Jagex is already doing far far more than any of the UK politician groups recommended.

If there are still any gambling concerns regarding Jagex's games, it will definitely only be gambling/dueling between players and betting on outcomes of in-game events for items/gp used as collateral on 3rd party sites.

02-Jul-2020 21:51:27

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
GhostlyBard said :

Its a step in the right direction.
Runescape has bonds, paid subscriptions, premium paid subscriptions, yak track, mtx cosmetics, limited time mtx events. It can survive without Alice & her ‘gambling but not really because of technicalities shenanigans.


If you admit this isnt gambling, then i guess this really isnt going anywhere.

I mean the one thing ppl fail to notice is the definition of gambling and how with gambling, theres a chance to win nothing .

Now tell me one time you ever won nothing from TH?
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

03-Jul-2020 00:55:19

Mauhur
Jun Member 2023

Mauhur

Posts: 861 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said :
GhostlyBard said :

Its a step in the right direction.
Runescape has bonds, paid subscriptions, premium paid subscriptions, yak track, mtx cosmetics, limited time mtx events. It can survive without Alice & her ‘gambling but not really because of technicalities shenanigans.


If you admit this isnt gambling, then i guess this really isnt going anywhere.

I mean the one thing ppl fail to notice is the definition of gambling and how with gambling, theres a chance to win nothing .

Now tell me one time you ever won nothing from TH?


It's still possible to win a bad prize though. Thankfully, Jagex upped the oddments conversion rate so there's that silver lining.

03-Jul-2020 01:01:42

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