RuneScape Forum Archive | Guthix on Zaros?

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ah but there's the thing. In Meeting History, the very Quest where we supposedly gave Seren hope and kept Guthix from driving her off, we clearly changed the future of the family. Overall, however, the course of history barely altered. This would mean that 'before' we traveled back in time to cause our actions in the past, something else managed to divert our timeline from the DoD path so that we could exist in the first place (because again, we changed time in this quest), and this thing could not have known of events in our changed timeline since we'd not come to create it until after it set the original timeline's path. And as all of the later 'loops' take place and are dependent on this one, all the new information in them about the future is dependent on that first loop as well.

As for the essence bit: Tuska is dead, yet her essence powers the World Window that we use to travel to Mazcab. Guthix is dead, but we have an entire skill dedicated to gathering his essence mixed with anima.

Beyond that the only source we have of him seeing Seren shatter states that he wept and believed she was gone. Admittedly conjecture on the witness's part, but we have no reason to think he believed anything to the contrary, because, again, even he couldn't hypothesize a way for Seren to be restored fully if she could be restored at all.

Also, let's not forget that Seren herself was convinced the act would kill her:

From Acceptence:
Seren: I accept now that even divine beings can die, and that my time has come. At least I go knowing that the harm I have caused this gentle people can and will eventually be undone, and that my death will not lead to theirs.

22-Feb-2018 00:53:52 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 01:03:29 by Hguoh

Jan

2018

Quael

Posts: 3,628 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

He wept, it could mean any reason. the two were in love, remember he did beg her to hide with him, he wanted to help. She did admit that could of, yes. But either way, He knew she was alive because of us, time change or not, we were meant to tell him eventually. We did start a loop, but that means so did our future selves.

as the essence part. it isnt tuska's essence, it's the essence of the other plane anima mundi she devoured that keeps her looking alive and powering the portal, her divine power is did, and the anima she devoured is slowly being drained into Gielinor's. Guthix's is because he was connected to the anima, his essence is due to the longevity of his connection , and his power. if it wasnt his connection to the anima, and longevity, bandos essence would be of note. same with V.

Duke of Fort Forinthry

Interested in role-play? check out: The Quest Collective

22-Feb-2018 03:44:49 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 04:01:49 by Quael

Mar

2020

Rensler

Posts: 668 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I am just curious as to what

Guthix's

relationship or opinions on the other gods were. All that is really left I am wondering on is the Pantheon, if he knew the whereabouts of

Tumeken

, if he was dead and would he have had to abide the edicts? Supporter of

Saradomin

Armadyl

Tumeken

V

27-Feb-2018 12:01:37 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 12:09:23 by Rensler

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Quael said :
He wept, it could mean any reason. the two were in love, remember he did beg her to hide with him, he wanted to help. She did admit that could of, yes. But either way, He knew she was alive because of us, time change or not, we were meant to tell him eventually. We did start a loop, but that means so did our future selves.

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at here. Yes, we started events that are now portrayed as a loop. However, we also showed during Meeting History that our actions in the past directly affected the future. If it were the case that, 'We did start a loop, but that means so did our future selves,' than we shouldn't have been able to change events and alter the future as we did since our future self would have already done it.

The fact that we did cause a change indicates that something else was keeping events unfolding to the original timeline instead of something like Dimension of Disaster until we traveled back the first time and triggered the, for all appearances, 'true time loops' we observe now (we no longer seem to be able to alter the future, which indicates that our future actions did already occur in the past).

My personal favorite for what was holding our timeline to it's intended end until we first came to be? Aeternam. We know they interacted with Guthix and have an 'odd' experience of time in comparison to most beings. And knowing that the Amserdrwys depends on that first jaunt through time (that we, again, know changed history) for existence indicating that it too was originally made by something else before the time loops were set off, I'd hedge my bets that the being shattered across all time might have the ability to create it (or at least introduce it to the original timeline, since we now it disappeared from the current timeline until we stumbled across it).

And again he didn't know that she lived, just that we were trying to put her back together.

27-Feb-2018 13:37:17 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 14:11:03 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Quael said :
as the essence part. it isnt tuska's essence, it's the essence of the other plane anima mundi she devoured that keeps her looking alive and powering the portal, her divine power is did, and the anima she devoured is slowly being drained into Gielinor's.

Anima doesn't keep gods living looking, their divine power does. Take away their divine power, and they turn to rock. The fact that Tuska still looks alive is indicative that she is leaking her essence in a mix with the anima she consumed (and we know this mixing can happen since it's happened with Guthix and Mah as well).

Quael said :
Guthix's is because he was connected to the anima, his essence is due to the longevity of his connection , and his power.

And who taught him to connect with the anima? Who also happens to be a T2 god? Why Seren, of course. Granted, she didn't have as strong a connection as Guthix did with Gielinor's anima, but we do see that she had enough of a connection to create a divination crater (we can use it in Priff).

Quael said :
if it wasnt his connection to the anima, and longevity, bandos essence would be of note. same with V.

V's was funneled directly into Tarshak, having had no chance to enter the environment and persist.

Bandos's fuels the portal to Yu'biusk and manifested as memories, a mix of divine energy and anima, on a world that was largely devoid of life and therefore anima.

In both cases, they are notably less powerful than Guthix or Seren, so we'd expect a smaller effect purely due to the lower amount of divine energy released upon death. The power difference between Guthix and Seren is a much smaller distinction.

27-Feb-2018 13:50:43

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rensler said :
I am just curious as to what

Guthix's

relationship or opinions on the other gods were. All that is really left I am wondering on is the Pantheon, if he knew the whereabouts of

Tumeken

, if he was dead and would he have had to abide the edicts?

It is very heavily implied that most of what remains of Tumeken is the Kharid-Ib.

There is some implication that Scabaras, Apmeken, Het, and Crondis might be shards of Tumeken (like how Eluned and Haluned were shards of Seren) that he originally created prior to his war with Zaros, subsumed prior to his explosion, and who manifested themselves from his remains after the explosion (like Eluned). Though this speculation is entirely based on Amascut referring to them as Tumeken's 'bau.'

Guthix evidently didn't see a need to expel Tumeken's remains or most members of the Pantheon with one exception: Elidinis. And though we know that at least one of Guthix's Guardians is on very good terms with Icthlarin (and therefore probably on bad terms with Amascut), we have little indication of the opinions of the other Guardians or Guthix himself.

As such, I think Guthix's opinion of Tumeken is likely similar to his opinion of Zaros. Tumeken came after Guthix went to sleep, died while Guthix slept, and probably wouldn't have been liked by Guthix if Tumeken had been alive when Guthix was awake.

27-Feb-2018 14:05:43

Jan

2018

Quael

Posts: 3,628 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yeh, I don't recall Seren teaching him, if she did, alright. But my statement stands that Guthix effect on gielinor after his death was due to to his connection. Bandos isn't powering the portal, if you recall before the portal appeared, It was just a small crater like location tat wounded the anima mundi. That portal is eitehr done by magic of those bandosian who can, or like Tuska, the anima mundi is powering it. Bandos Memory wasn't even in Gielinor, your statement just proves me point a bit.

Nothing said he thought she died. More evidence to me shows he knew from Seren informing him of her curse to the elf, and us telling him we are trying to reform her. If you think otherwise fine. But he knew from information I gathered. So we can agree to disagree.

Also Hguoh, It was stated in VIP Q&A 2017 that Tuska looks alive because of the anima mundi she has in her that is powering the portal and leaking into Gielinor, not her godly essence. Tuska had devoured a lot of Anima that it is pretty much acts as if she was a world herself.

"I recall reading an old statement about Tuska still having anima that she absorbed from other worlds in her, which is why after she was killed, she didn't turn to stone. Is this correct? Also, is the anima that she absorbed now part of Gielinor?

Mod Chaose: This is indeed what we have said in the past. The vast anima resource in Tuska's body is slowly leaking out into Gielinor, but probably won't be expended within the player's lifetime."

Duke of Fort Forinthry

Interested in role-play? check out: The Quest Collective

27-Feb-2018 17:44:43 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 17:48:02 by Quael

Jan

2018

Quael

Posts: 3,628 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rensler said :
I am just curious as to what

Guthix's

relationship or opinions on the other gods were. All that is really left I am wondering on is the Pantheon, if he knew the whereabouts of

Tumeken

, if he was dead and would he have had to abide the edicts?

The edict is a barrier that keeps all gods out from entering Gielinor, it doesn't kick them out. Guthix would have had to go to Tumeken and kick him out. According to the story, Guthix did visit each god, and either forced them out, or allowed them to leave peacefully. If there is any god that were left, they were left because Guthix did not see them as a threat. The story also state that Guthix didn't rest until he fought and forced them all out. So the Pantheons, like stated, most were tier 7 gods who had little influence to the world, and were mostly just avatars of Tumeken. Amascut was not a threat during the time, and Icthlarin would have probably be considered useful, and allowed to stay due to hisj ob.

Also he didn't die, he just split himself into different personality

Duke of Fort Forinthry

Interested in role-play? check out: The Quest Collective

27-Feb-2018 17:52:33 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 18:01:51 by Quael

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Quael said :
Yeh, I don't recall Seren teaching him, if she did, alright. But my statement stands that Guthix effect on gielinor after his death was due to to his connection. Bandos isn't powering the portal, if you recall before the portal appeared, It was just a small crater like location tat wounded the anima mundi. That portal is eitehr done by magic of those bandosian who can, or like Tuska, the anima mundi is powering it. Bandos Memory wasn't even in Gielinor, your statement just proves me point a bit.

Seren Teaching Guthix to connect to Anima (Priff Seren Memoriam Crystal 5):

Guthix is different, stronger somehow. He has grown in potential to a power that rivals my own, perhaps even surpasses it. I have shared my knowledge of the anima with him, and he has gradually grown in power , but this change is sudden and disturbing.

And if Guthix's connection can cause his essence to linger, so too can Seren's. They are both t2.

Bandos's essence, not Bandos himself, powers the portal. Interplanar travel is notoriously energy intensive unless you use the elder blade (what Guthix did), holes torn by the elder blade (World Gate, Fairy Rings, Pest portals), are a dragonkin (Kethsi), are a white dragon (One of a Kind), or use the Schism/Rift that appears to naturally be present on every plane (I theorize that it's the point where the elders enter/exit a plane). Outside of those exceptions, mortals can't do it. But divine power can. And wouldn't you know it? Both the World Window and the portal to Yu'biusk happen to be right where a god died and there is divine power now freely available to power an interplanar portal.

27-Feb-2018 18:09:14

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Also, here's a bit of Dialogue from The Mighty Fall:

Player: How are you able to travel to Yu'biusk so easily?
Zarador: Bandos opened a permanent portal . It lies at the seat of his tower.

Also fairly curious why it matters that the memory was on Yu'biusk and not Gielinor. Much like elder wisps that are anima that mixed with Mah's ambient power over time and persisted beyond her leaving the area or guthixian butterflies (concentrated Guthix essence mixed with anima manifested as butterflies) that were created after Guthix's death, it is a case of some part of a god's essence persisting beyond a god's death.

And if a god's essence can persist after death, there's no reason for Guthix to think that Seren would need to live beyond her self-destruction. And again, he had no idea that she could ever be fully repaired. So even if he were aware that she technically 'survived' the explosion, he knew that she was basically brain dead/permanently comatose and was functionally dead.

27-Feb-2018 18:09:49 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2018 18:17:34 by Hguoh

Forums

Guthix on Zaros?