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The Mwanu identity (theory)

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Quael
Jan Member 2018

Quael

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Uncle Harper said :
Wahisietel said :


Please show me the exact spot where the horrors are called mwanu or vice versa. There is never a description of the mwanus physical appearance.


How about their appearance then, no? The horrors are the tribes that also live within the cave, and are ape-like. Back in kindred spirit, Sliske's journal, ape-like is also used for the Horrors. Mwanus appearance, yeah they kind of were hinted. In the Decaying Journal;

"This bored Tezcasathla and so he reached his hand across the world and pricked a finger upon a mountain. His blood flowed down the surface and mixed with the stone and the trees. The blood infused the dirt with strength and purpose and so the stone took form and the first of the mwanu was born. Strong as stone, and he stood proud and defiant against the fiery stare of Tezcasathla, he was not afraid and this pleased Tezcasathla.

'I am mwanu!' cried the first of us. 'Strongest in all of Jermyn!'

'Prove it.' whispered the stars.

So Tezcasathla crafted the other races - the monkeys, the apes and the gorillas - and he gave each of them a single command.

'Survive.' " If they believe Xau-Tak "created" the apes, why would they create them like that? "ape-like". Yes the Mwanu is never stated to have a physical appearance, but it isn't far to believe they are teh horror as their appearance matches what was within Jermyn.

The book also says " So demands Tezcasathla. His price for raising up the mwanu above the lesser species, the apes and monkeys that infest the jungles of Jermyn." So, if the Mwanu lived in Jermyn first, or are native. They are also ape-like creatures, which in the end, they devolved into horrors.

The mural in the temple under water is probably just a hint that the Dragonkin dealt with Xau-tak, because it seems that everyone else has before us.
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20-Mar-2018 23:43:43

Mod Raven

Mod Raven

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I loved reading this theory, I can see how you might piece some of these things together and it's really interesting to see how you've made some of the conclusions you've made. This sort of lore theorising is my favourite stuff to read on the forums because it shows such a lovely passion for piecing together the puzzle pieces of lore we've put down.

I was going to confirm the answer, but I think that ruins an interesting discussion. Prod me in a few days when this argument has reached its simmering point and I'll provide some of the answers. :)

= Raven =

21-Mar-2018 09:13:50

Uncle Harper
Jul Member 2015

Uncle Harper

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I believe the theory presented leaves room for Jermyn to exist in the last cycle and Marimbo to exist in this one. You have to realize that Xau-Tak exists outside of space time. You cant think of him as linear. In this theory, he pulls creatures from the last cycle, into the current cycle. In the journals, the Mwanu are taken from their world into a completely new one and possibly a new age as well. If the Mwanu are indeed the dragonkin, and the apes of the jungle followed them, this would include Marimbo.

"The book also says " So demands Tezcasathla. His price for raising up the mwanu above the lesser species, the apes and monkeys that infest the jungles of Jermyn." So, if the Mwanu lived in Jermyn first, or are native. They are also ape-like creatures, which in the end, they devolved into horrors." These are assumptions you are making. The mwanu are never directly referred to as ape-like in appearance. Hell, no description of them is ever made. Only the horrors are ever called ape-like.

Remember during Kindred Spirits when we all assumed the master could not be Jas because the voice never used the actual name for the elder artifacts? Using staff and stone instead of siphon and catalyst? Similar thing here. You're assuming it cant be the dragonkin because in 2 of the 5 journals the authors are observing the horrors (NOTE: They never refer to them as mwanu.) Because coming right out and saying these specific things take too much out of the mystery. I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim;
Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.

21-Mar-2018 15:37:46 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 15:38:30 by Uncle Harper

Hguoh

Hguoh

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You're still missing the part where the dragonkin actually meet with Jas. Going straight from Jermyn (prior cycle) to Gielinor (evidently after the elders went to sleep) leaves them with no interaction with Jas to get bound to her stone.

It's also incredibly evident that the account in the Rotten Journal and the account depicted in the murals are two separate events barring some serious revisionist history on the part of the Dragonkin that made the murals.

The former details them finding a dark lake, the writer hearing Xau-Tak's whispers, stone arms reaching out from the lake and the Mwanu willingly running toward the arms with only the author holding back. The author later enters the lake and ends up on Gielinor.

The latter details the Dragonkin experimenting on/with a portal (whether they created it or just found it is not confirmed either way as we don't yet have an understanding of all the words used). Stone arms reach out of the portal, grasping at and catching at least one Dragonkin (Kranon) while most Dragonkin flee. The Dragonkin later end up in combat with strange Dragonkin, and Ulthven is seemingly destroyed in response (leading to Ulthven being beneath the ocean when we finally encounter it in the quest).

In both cases, we have a portal out of which come black stone hands. However, the stories diverge on the reaction of the people involved (all but one Mwanu running to the portal and hands in comparison to most dragonkin fleeing the hands with at least one getting caught) and the end state of those that entered (the Mwanu ended up on a different plane from Jermyn, while the captured Dragonkin seemingly came back out on the plane they entered to do battle with the Dragonkin that escaped capture).

21-Mar-2018 16:33:51 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 16:43:40 by Hguoh

Danchu

Danchu

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Hguoh said :
You're still missing the part where the dragonkin actually meet with Jas. Going straight from Jermyn (prior cycle) to Gielinor (evidently after the elders went to sleep) leaves them with no interaction with Jas to get bound to her stone.

I'm not in favour of the kin being the Mwanu but, in fairness - there could of been kin who stayed behind, they were the ones Jas encountered and her curse just applied to them all or maybe it didn't, the few kin who went with Xau-Tak are kin that don't have the curse.

I don't like that theory but just been open minded. :)

21-Mar-2018 16:44:09

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Danchu said :
I'm not in favour of the kin being the Mwanu but, in fairness - there could of been kin who stayed behind, they were the ones Jas encountered and her curse just applied to them all or maybe it didn't, the few kin who went with Xau-Tak are kin that don't have the curse.

That really makes things convoluted.

The Rotten Journal states that the Mwanu were forced into the jungle and settled around the dark lake (portal). It then has all the Mwanu in the settlement around the lake entering the portal when the hands appear. The author then enters later.

So in order for their to be Dragonkin that stayed behind, there needs to have been a second group of surviving Dragonkin that didn't end up at the lake.

This second group then either needs to encounter the lake on Jermyn later or encounter/create a similar portal on Gielinor only for the majority to flee the black hands when the majority of the first group to encounter the hands ran towards them.

Then the second group then needs to have an encounter with the Dragonkin Xau-Tak took and presumably altered, still being able to remember the one the black hands took from their group (Kranon since the name is mentioned in the 3rd mural of the strange kin attacking/being attacked (making this group's first encounter with such a portal much more likely to have happened more recently on Gielinor than way back in time on Jermyn)). This leading to the second group destroying the temple they had built around the portal and the island it sat on.

And all that would still not explain how the horrors (and a person who interacted with them) ended up holding onto journals supposedly written by Dragonkin.

It's involves a lot more unconfirmed assumptions than: Mwanu became Horrors, and the Dragonkin had a separate encounter with Xau-Tak and a similar portal.

21-Mar-2018 17:10:25 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 17:10:55 by Hguoh

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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You know, we do actually have a confirmed instance of Xau-Tak being written about in a book by the Dragonkin. Specifically, Kalibath talking about the gods/followers Tarshak encountered while following V.

Original message details are unavailable.
He has seen people worshipping giant pigs, giant plants and giant rocks. He has seen them throw their own children into living flames. He has seen them engage in fights to the death with combatants in the billions. He has seen them welcome the obsidian hand of death around their throat with a smile.

I feel like Kalibath would probably give Tarshak's account of Xau-Tak followers more weight if all the Dragonkin had encountered Xau-Tak and not what appears to just be some of the Dactyl. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

21-Mar-2018 17:48:40 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 18:24:12 by Wahisietel

Uncle Harper
Jul Member 2015

Uncle Harper

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Hguoh said :
You're still missing the part where the dragonkin actually meet with Jas. Going straight from Jermyn (prior cycle) to Gielinor (evidently after the elders went to sleep) leaves them with no interaction with Jas to get bound to her stone.


You are making the assumption that sleep for an elder god is the same as it is for a mortal. Guthix "slept" as well but was still very much aware of everything that went on in the world. I assume the Elders were the same but to a higher degree and it is probably better to think of their "sleep" as more of their bodies being at rest and the being not unconscious. Leading up to endgame we had been told time and time again that an elder "waking" would be the end of Gielinor and the current universal cycle. However, we discover Jas is awake by the mortal definition and has been so for awhile for her to have given Sliske so much advice. And yet in the 2 and a half years between sliske obtaining the stone and the staff (with Jas help) to sliskes death, Gielinor was perfectly fine. So its possible that Zaros was correct and the Dragonkin came from the abyss, sought out Jas on Gielinor and Jas bound them to the stone as guardians. If she made them guardians of the stone instead of erasing them completely, logic would deduce that Jas felt the stone required guard from something else. So she likely was aware of the "ants" roaming her surface and meeting the dragonkin could still occur during a period of rest. I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim;
Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.

21-Mar-2018 18:12:47

Danchu

Danchu

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Hguoh said :

It's involves a lot more unconfirmed assumptions than: Mwanu became Horrors, and the Dragonkin had a separate encounter with Xau-Tak and a similar portal.

Oh don't worry, I'm with you on them being the horrors. I was just being open minded in the discussion.

The dragonkin pre-curse would be interesting to learn about though, the curse would change them to their core and I wonder how they were in the previous cycle, could they of been as close to nature as the Mwanu were - with the curse turning them into the hardened beasts they are now. We know one of them use to be a philosopher, so they were civilised in some regards.

Also, I don't think it makes sense for the kin to be the Mwanu because why would Xau-Tak turn on the kin and vice-versa like dedicated in the murals if they were the essentially with Xau-Tak when they left Jermyn. Do we know why the portal was opened by the kin in the first place?

21-Mar-2018 18:15:23

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