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You've done Saradomin dirty.

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Lositnot

Lositnot

Posts: 70 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm following Saradomin because he's one of the most interesting characters in the game and I agree with his ideology the most. I also can't really align with any of the other factions.

Well, that was until a certain dialogue line in Sliskes Endgame... I didn't even get it on my own playthrough but I know it's there since I've read about the different outcomes in the Runescape Wiki.

If you race to the stone against Saradomin and he manages to arrive there before you, Zaros appears, remembers Saradomin of his pact with him, Zaros is holding his daughter hostage and so on... you probably already know this scene or read about it.

Now the things that are bothering me are the following:

1. How is it possible for the "god of wisdom" to fall for such a trap? Why did he engage in such a ridiculous pact? Even if the "god of wisdom" title is just an arrogant self-praise, he's still one of the oldest and arguably most strategic and successful "gods". But this point isn't even that bad because it's no shame to fall for someone like Zaros...

2. The reason for the pact was the safety of his daughter. Saradomin, who praises sacrifice and a "the ends justify the means" ideology, of all people, subjugates himself to someone he considers a grave danger (Zaros) just for the safety of ONE individual? Although SO MANY people died in the wars for him?

3. Ok, maybe you can excuse even the second point somehow. Maybe he couldn't predict he would've had to turn over the stone for the pact (because Sliskes rules should've prevented this or whatever). But now comes the worst part: When he's willing to turn over the stone he seriously says that it's a "SMALL SACRIFICE" for the safety of his daughter. WTF? Like I said, the "god" who praises sacrifice is willing to give up all his goals, all his fears (of Zaros and the others) and especially all his the sacrifices that were made in his name for ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL? This is going against EVERYTHING Saradomin stands for and assassinates...

05-May-2019 13:52:00

Lositnot

Lositnot

Posts: 70 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
...his character entirely.

Truly atrocious writing. I honestly don't even get what Jagex was trying to do here, were they trying to make him more "sympathetic" and "human" by showing "oooh look, he cares for his daughter"? Because that didn't really work out, it rather destroyed his whole character, ideology and made him the most hypocritical "god" of them all. And before anyone says "he has always been a hypocrite", yeah, but no, so were all the other "gods" and that's exactly what made them interesting. Saradomin wasn't more of a hypocrite than most of the other "gods". But now he reached a whole new level which makes him completely unsupportable... Saradomin of all people should've been the one willing to sacrifice his daughter or anyone else for the greater good because after all that's what he stands for.

Jagex should really consider to change this scene because this single dialogue line (which I mentioned in point 3) destroys his entire character. And I'm pretty sure that Jagex actually did this to make him MORE sympathetic, not less... just take out this line or change it and everything would be ok. Maybe even change it to "It's a small sacrifice for YOU Zaros" or something like that because this would align with his character.

Now I probably have to replay the canon for this quest since I can't support Saradomin anymore... also change the emissary. Anyone got any ideas? Armadyl is too naive and boring, Zaros too untrustworthy and he'll never be able to have real empathy for mortals or understand them, Seren too incompetent, the Godless too cringe and useless... I'm thinking about supporting the Dragonkin or myself in the race for the stone. For emissaries I'll probably pick V since he's the most similar to the adventurer.

05-May-2019 13:53:40

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You have to remember:
- RS has been around since 2001, with several different lead game designers and most quests being written by different developers. so there is going to be a lot of 'variation' in a character's protrayal
- don't get too tied down to the whole 'factions' thing. Jagex added it as only a bit of role playing and flavor back in 2013. it has very little impact on gameplay. they also soon regretted it. (hence why some like the Godless had gotten next to no screen time)

ALL of the gods were affected by Sliske using the Stone of Jas's (at Jas's teachings) to remove/reduce the godhood of the players. Thus none of them had any sense of prescience (they couldn't see into the future).
Saradomin, Zamorak, AND Aramdyl each had made a deal with Zaros because Zaros had dones something to each (Zamorak was the Ritual to save the Mahjarrat from Mah, Aramdyl was a deal to help the Avainese). Saradomin was that this was his biological daughter. One that he had kept alive via stasis and magic for 10000 years. Ofc he was going to do everything he could to protect her.

In addition, most of the 'gods' are just empowered mortals (except for Seren and Zaros). Each of their characterizations is such as to show they are flawed beings.
Saradomin even goes on a rant in one like Death of Chivalry that he had made a number of questionable decisions. He goes into the whole long term thinking that comes with being so long lived, rather than having a few decades of lifespan.
Granted, it is nice that he owns his decisions.
But to some, there is still a massive dose of arrogance to him.

06-May-2019 12:23:58

Last Prophet

Last Prophet

Posts: 3,433 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This is one of those aspects of Jagex storytelling that really drove me away from the game. There appears, in my mind, to be no direction from head of story to story devs. The result is a mishandling of the characters we know and love.

RuneScape has always been a third-rate game, but I fell in love with the story anyway. It's a shame they've gone and bastardized it to reduce dev time and resources.

Ah, well: at least they have microtransactions.
+
Last Prophet
+

~Creator of
Ikadia the Exile
~

06-May-2019 23:19:09

Giras
Sep Member 2012

Giras

Posts: 2,399 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've always seen Saradomin as a tyrant and hypocrite who's bought into his own propaganda. You may disagree with this portrayal, but I think it's spot on.
I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently
.

07-May-2019 01:05:52

Hazeel

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Have you been hiding in a cave? Have you not noticed that just about every God (if not all of them) are fundamentally hypocritical to their philosophy?

-
Saradomin
is a fool and quite frequently bends the rules to his favor.

-
Zamorak
is a remarkably unambitious pushover with a bleeding heart.

-
Guthix
is, perhaps, the least balanced of all the Gods.

-
Armadyl
is a bigger warmongerer than Saradomin and Zamorak.

-
Bandos
is a coward and a weakling who hates fighting.

-
Seren
has the temperament of a deranged sociopath.

-
Zaros
could barely keep anything under control and his empire was a bureaucratic mess.

This is why following any ideology that relies on its God is, in my opinion, very stupid. I personally think it's unfortunate that rather than making each God a paragon of their ideology and giving each ideology its own setbacks, they chose to re-use the same character flaw of "hypocrite" for all of them. That said, it's not new. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-May-2019 01:34:49 - Last edited on 08-May-2019 01:40:38 by Hazeel

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd say Saradomin struggling to grapple with his own humanity has been a fairly consistent character trait since the 6th age began.


Saradomin truly believes in sacrifice for the greater good. He is absolutely dedicated to completing his mission for Gielinor and the rest of the universe. Saradomin tries to divorce himself from mortals, and by extension his own nature, in order to see the bigger picture, to be the true god he thinks mortals need. But ultimately Saradomin is still a person, with all the messy contradictions that come with it. His mission, his ideology, everything he believes in (and make no mistake, he does believe in it) does not transcend the love he has for his daughter. If she were any other person, Saradomin would not give up the stone as he did, but Adrasteia is his daughter and she means the world to him.

A set of carefully crafted principles doesn't change his feelings. No matter how much he wants to deny it, Saradomin is still human. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-May-2019 01:55:35

Edcy

Edcy

Posts: 1,105 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well now, widsom tends to come outta mistakes, and Saradinub has made plenty. I got golden cane from a chest many months ago by the way, but hadn't wielded it until few weeks ago upon attaining membership with James, what a dull riddance that...

edit: so yeah made that glorious typo for very coincidencely signaficant word, did we hee hee hee

12-May-2019 12:35:30 - Last edited on 12-May-2019 12:36:29 by Edcy

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