RuneScape Forum Archive | Elidinis the God of Storms?

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pantamalion said :
Summerleaf said :

. . . Their names were literally numbers . . .

On that note, why did Aragnya have a proper name then? (or conversely why is 0078 have a number since they're he only 2 named individuals)

They could have some sort caste system. Maybe some of them aren't allowed to have names. Alternatively, maybe Aragnya was from a time when they did have names, or maybe she was given one due to her infamy. Might be a curse word or something, similar to how Arrav got his name. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

05-Jul-2017 23:58:00

Pantamalion

Posts: 646 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AesirWarrior said :
Pantamalion said :
Summerleaf said :

. . . Their names were literally numbers . . .

On that note, why did Aragnya have a proper name then? (or conversely why is 0078 have a number since they're he only 2 named individuals)

They could have some sort caste system. Maybe some of them aren't allowed to have names. Alternatively, maybe Aragnya was from a time when they did have names, or maybe she was given one due to her infamy. Might be a curse word or something, similar to how Arrav got his name.
That's a good point. Alternatively it could be that both 0078 and Aragnya are just both perfectly normal names in their language.

06-Jul-2017 01:45:14

Pantamalion

Posts: 646 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AesirWarrior said :
Pantamalion said :
Summerleaf said :

. . . Their names were literally numbers . . .

On that note, why did Aragnya have a proper name then? (or conversely why is 0078 have a number since they're he only 2 named individuals)

They could have some sort caste system. Maybe some of them aren't allowed to have names. Alternatively, maybe Aragnya was from a time when they did have names, or maybe she was given one due to her infamy. Might be a curse word or something, similar to how Arrav got his name.
That's a good point. Alternatively it could be that both 0078 and Aragnya are just both perfectly normal names in their language.

06-Jul-2017 01:45:14

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pantamalion said :
AesirWarrior said :
Pantamalion said :
Summerleaf said :

. . . Their names were literally numbers . . .

On that note, why did Aragnya have a proper name then? (or conversely why is 0078 have a number since they're he only 2 named individuals)

They could have some sort caste system. Maybe some of them aren't allowed to have names. Alternatively, maybe Aragnya was from a time when they did have names, or maybe she was given one due to her infamy. Might be a curse word or something, similar to how Arrav got his name.
That's a good point. Alternatively it could be that both 0078 and Aragnya are just both perfectly normal names in their language.

I think Aragnya named themselves due to not being a traditional computer-spider-person, and unsubscribed from the numeric system of naming in order to become an individual.

06-Jul-2017 03:44:19

Dec

2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SonofZeruiah said :
Also, whyAlso, why is everyone ignoring how horrorifying it is that the spiders killed their young considered "unfit"? They are a sentient species practicing the worst form of eugenics, akin to genocide.

It's ethnocentric to try to morally judge the culture of these spider things. These "children" were a perceived threat to their way of life. Their whole culture was based on logic and these children could potentially alter reality and therefore tear at the fabric of their society. If they didn't do it, their culture potentially could have been destroyed much earlier. Not dissimilar to the Spartans who would leave the deformed babies to die because their culture, environmental stresses and way of life could not afford the luxurary of raising children who could not fight.

06-Jul-2017 05:55:11 - Last edited on 06-Jul-2017 06:01:04 by Cthris

Mod Rowley

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Happy to share! This one was written by Mod Scorpio - @JagexScorpio on Twitter. I think she'd be more than happy to discuss/get feedback on it.

06-Jul-2017 10:29:22

Jun

2016

SonofZeruiah

Posts: 110 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Cthris said :

It's ethnocentric to try to morally judge the culture of these spider things. These "children" were a perceived threat to their way of life. Their whole culture was based on logic and these children could potentially alter reality and therefore tear at the fabric of their society. If they didn't do it, their culture potentially could have been destroyed much earlier. Not dissimilar to the Spartans who would leave the deformed babies to die because their culture, environmental stresses and way of life could not afford the luxurary of raising children who could not fight.

It is worth noting not all Spartans agreed with infantcide and while a wide spread practice across the whole world for mellinias, it has always been the dark secret one ignores, for many have expressed guilt over the action.

Also i doubt anyone truly believes that as long as a society believes the action to be acceptable, it must be morally correct. In the US we insist past accepted moral behavior change, even though they did it without hurting their consciences.

In the example of the spiders, they are a sentient species that would rather slaughter thousands then permit diversity into their genetics. Yes Aragnya was a cripple, but she also discovered something the spiders preferred to pretend did not exist, the use of magic. They killed her and her young for creating a new way to achieve their social expectations. While she may have breen breaking a law with this behavior, her children were innocent, slain because her mother did not fit their mold.

Also, for such a "logical" species, they sure ignored the value of diversified genetics and its ability to strengthen a species against disease and mutations.

I'm not arguing that Elidinis was right and the spiders were wrong, but that both were in the wrong, escpiecally since Elidinis failed to show the error of their ways before resorting to extreme punishment.

07-Jul-2017 16:12:01

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SonofZeruiah said :
In the example of the spiders, they are a sentient species that would rather slaughter thousands then permit diversity into their genetics. Yes Aragnya was a cripple, but she also discovered something the spiders preferred to pretend did not exist, the use of magic. They killed her and her young for creating a new way to achieve their social expectations. While she may have breen breaking a law with this behavior, her children were innocent, slain because her mother did not fit their mold.

2 things:

1. There is no indication that the spider-like beings of this tale are against genetic diversity in general, just that they are against the perpetuation of genes that result in crippled young. This is important as therein lies the difference between only wanting to mate with somebody tall with blonde hair and blue eyes and not wanting to mate with somebody with a severe deformity (ex: Joseph Merrick, the Elephant Man) that your kids have a good chance of inheriting.

2. There is no evidence in the story that any of Aragnya's children demonstrated their mother's ability to use Magic.

I find the spider-people's actions here interesting to say the least. They had no issue with Aragnya hanging about until she tricked others into mating with her when they wouldn't have normally. The moment the kids come up though, they kill them all off to prevent the spread of Aragnya's 'poisonous' genes. It's a weird dissonance between their treatment of cripples, especially since, as you say, the children had no choice in the decision of their mother.

That being said, I find your portrayal of Aragnya here interesting to say the least. She didn't just, 'not fit their mold,' she used magic to trick others into mating with her when we know they'd not consent if they knew the truth. That's pretty darn close to, if not outright, rape.

07-Jul-2017 17:21:49 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2017 17:22:38 by Hguoh

Jun

2016

SonofZeruiah

Posts: 110 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :

That being said, I find your portrayal of Aragnya here interesting to say the least. She didn't just, 'not fit their mold,' she used magic to trick others into mating with her when we know they'd not consent if they knew the truth. That's pretty darn close to, if not outright, rape.

I agree that is pretty close to rape. the angle I was considering was this: the spiders seem to mate only if they possessed the desirable traits to pass on to the next generation. Aragnya circumvented these standards by creating a new path, using magic to fill in for her weaknesses. Thus she possessed a new way to achieve their expectations, which the other spiders rejected as soon as they learned the truth.

As the the magic potential of her children, magic itself has been presented in RS as both inborn and a learned skill, so who could know, other then perhaps Aragnya would have either genetically passed on or taught her new skill to her children. But that is pure speculation.

Regardless, a great story and lore on Elidinis after years of suffering a "drought" concerning her whereabouts and actions.

08-Jul-2017 02:23:04

Dec

2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SonofZeruiah said :

[I'm not arguing that Elidinis was right and the spiders were wrong, but that both were in the wrong, escpiecally since Elidinis failed to show the error of their ways before resorting to extreme punishment.]

My point is: why bring morality and with it moral judgment into this in the first place? For either party to be "in the wrong," as you say, they must be failing to meet some moral criteria, yet the only moral criteria any one of us can offer is our own, which likely was instilled into us through interactions with our own cultures. Hense why it is ethnocentric.

[Just as an interesting thing to think about, it's been noted in the past by modern philosophers, specifically Karl Marx and Nietzche (one could argue that Nietzche is either the last modern philosopher or one of the first post-modern) that our own moral criteria and values tend to correspond to either our social necessities or used to justify the means in which we have to survive. In other words, we don't adopt and shed certain morals and values because they are "right" but because it is necessary to survival to do so. (You could argue that this line of thinking is underlying in the contemporary sociological paradigm functionalist theory). Just as it was necessary for the spider things to do what they did to preserve their culture. ]

Furthermore, your claim that the spiders are illogical for not taking into account genetic diversity, which I believe is unfounded from the nitpicks of Hguoh, but is also an example of the problems of ethnocentrism. The spiders could only be considered acting illogically in your scenario if evolutionary growth, and the consequent social change that would result, as a cultural value. If they valued something else, perhaps a form of social stagnation/maintaining the status quo, it would be illogical for them to want evolutionary growth.

08-Jul-2017 04:05:30 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2017 04:13:07 by Cthris

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Elidinis the God of Storms?