RuneScape Forum Archive | RuneFest Lore [Spoilers, Duh]

AttilaSquare

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AesirWarrior said :
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the problem is here. ... I think Gamez X has a point here: the lore, or the models used to explicate it, have not been straightforward. Aesir also has a point: all the various models and explications can likely be reconciled. But, having spent over eleven years trying to preserve and reconcile various bits of RuneScape's lore, I would very much like to see Jagex chart out some clear - and impressively symmetric and sophisticated - principles with which we might understand the multiverse, magic, etc.

08-Oct-2017 15:29:38

Sep

2014

Gamez X

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Aesir, with the torus thing i was referring to the picture elf of seren posted where a mod said a model for it was tube/torus shaped. As you said for years they just weren't specific about this kind of stuff so there's alot of fleeting statements floating around. For the shape of the universe i am taking what zaros said in fotg as the canon design. In there he said there was a bunch of ancient worlds at the bottom end of the universe (now said in the stream to be the last survivors of the previous revision), then 4 distinct paths of elemental themed worlds which then reconverge at the top with gilenor. For the past 2 lore streams this has been said and now we have the thing about ancient worlds and a rune hierarchy through it. I think we can all agree that this is the now official design of the structure of the universe. It just so happens that when i drew this description it ended up looking like a tree, which fits cus the description itself sounds like the idea of the world tree from nordic mythology which i'm sure they took inspiration from

Also zammy didnt throw hostilus into the "the ingame abyss", he stretched him out to create teleport pathways through the universe to become that location. This ingame location and the abyss between worlds are not the same the thing and i think that is causing confusion. Which is why i've taken to calling the ingame location the hostilus rift and the space between worlds the abyss. The rift is inside the abyss but not the full abyss itself, it is confusing to word it right...

08-Oct-2017 17:15:05

Sep

2014

Gamez X

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As for the whole thing with the dragonkin planet, that seems even more inconsistent than the universe design. One place says they hid away in the abyss, though i think that was back before they made a clear distinction between the ingame abyss and the abyss between worlds (see my above post) so i'm not inclined to hold much stock in this particular idea other than the point that they're from the previous universe

Last years stream said instead they came from a planet and at some point jas came to them while she was experimenting with the stone. Given the rune hierarchy this would place it as one of the catalytic planes but again with the rune hierarchy i'm having trouble seeing any place where the dragonkin would fit, let alone on the jas path

This years stream i feel should be taken as the most updated information which states again the 4 path structure and said that the lower planes near freneskea are the only survivors from the previous universe, presumably cus these where the transcendent rune planets of the previous universe so strong enough to survive. Zaros also states in fotg that iaia is one of the lower planes and is already home to another 2 dying dragon-like races, thats why i'm saying it is HIGHLY logical and likely that this was the dragonkins home. Now a mod did say in this thread that sometimes the elders backtracked so maybe jas went back down to the ancient worlds and cursed the dragonkin then? I still like the idea of them actually seeing the elders leave at the beginning and following after to try and save their dying species

Lore hounds love these details but so far they've been somewhat inconsistent as they've slowly built up the story over years with changes here and there. This is why i'm saying its time to have actual defined lore and i've given the most logical and likely answers to these using what info we have now

08-Oct-2017 17:30:13

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

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Gamez X said :
Also zammy didnt throw hostilus into the "the ingame abyss", he stretched him out to create teleport pathways through the universe to become that location. This ingame location and the abyss between worlds are not the same the thing and i think that is causing confusion. Which is why i've taken to calling the ingame location the hostilus rift and the space between worlds the abyss. The rift is inside the abyss but not the full abyss itself, it is confusing to word it right...

Yes Zamorak stretched Hostilius out in the abyss. I'm not saying he didn't. But if you remove Hostilius from the equation you're still gonna be in the Abyss, just without a giant demon in it. And no, Zamorak did not make Hostilius into a teleportation nexus, that is pure headcanon. The abyss is a medium through which teleports happen, Hostilius has nothing to do with it as far as we know. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 17:42:15 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 17:43:10 by AesirWarrior

Sep

2014

Gamez X

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Well actually in the rune memories quest we find out how teleportation was made. The first wizards tower figured out they can use teleportation if they bend the path through a different dimension first, though again just this brings up the whole mess with the words plane/dimension/realm being interchangeable but we'll get to that. Now from that quest we know the zammy wizard used a demon pact to use "the abyss" as a nexus that all future teleportation spells are based on

Now lets look at this abyss and determine which one it is, is it the universal abyss or the hostilus rift? Well the first clue is the fact they made a demon pact to gain access to it, why would a demon who are only native to 1 planet in the entire universe have a monopoly on the whole of space in the universe? Answer is they wouldnt, but they might have power over the hostilus rift because that was made from a demon using a demon's contract i believe. Now lets look at the teleportations, do they still use this location or the wider abyss? Well we know the runecrafting location DEFINATELY is the hostilus abyss because its stated. Now look at the old teleport random event, when it went wrong we got stuck inbetween teleports (presumably the dimension it curves through) and it looks VERY similar to the runecrafting abyss. Given that and how we know teleports have a demonic origin we can conclude that it is infact the hostilus rift that is being used as the teleport nexus and not the wider abyss it sits in. This rift sits in the abyss and its used as pathways through the abyss

Again its the problem of names and such being inconsistent, over the years. We really could do with getting some defined names instead

08-Oct-2017 17:57:36

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

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Gamez X said :
The first wizards tower figured out they can use teleportation if they bend the path through a different dimension first

Indeed let's look at a few quotes, and other lore, shall we?

Rune memories:

Of course! That makes a lot of sense. Teleport spells need to move the traveler through a second plane of existence, in order to bypass obstacles. The teleport spells in the standard spellbook use a plane called the Abyss

For a teleport spell to be useful it has to bypass obstacles, and that's what the wizards of the old tower had so much trouble working out to do. That was the teleportation problem. Kelavan's breakthrough, the one you saw him make in the first memory, provided a means to travel around an obstacle by briefly entering a different plane of existence.

Abyssal book:

Abyssal Space is not a dimension in a way that we understand the term from examples such as Zanaris or Freneskae. Rather, it is the name we have given the dimension that exists between other more developed dimensions - the ‘glue’ that keeps each dimension together yet separate, if you will.
The Abyssal Space’s existence at the ‘fringe’ of reality means that it does not conform to the same guidelines of space and time as Gielinor does; you may enter it and then leave it from an identical spot, yet reappear many hundreds of miles at your target destination (the ‘teleportation’ phenomenon that we use daily).

Unless you want to pull the retcon card it's clear that it's the nature of the abyss as a glue-dimension between the planes that allow it to be used for teleportation, not an artifical construct.

TBC in next post. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:10:08 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:37:12 by AesirWarrior

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Gamez X said :

Now lets look at this abyss and determine which one it is, is it the universal abyss or the hostilus rift? Well the first clue is the fact they made a demon pact to gain access to it, why would a demon who are only native to 1 planet in the entire universe have a monopoly on the whole of space in the universe?

You are making two assumptions here. One, that the abyss is synonomous with outer space, and two, that it's seperate from "the hostilius rift" as you call it.

All current lore indicates that the abyss is another dimension. It's been referred to as the "glue" between panes several times, and most Jmod models of the universe make a distinction between "space" and "the abyss". It is through its nature as another dimension that makes teleportation possible. The original dev who worked upon it used "warp space" as an analogy in his AMA. You enter a another dimension where space works differently to achieve nigh-instantaneous travel. Current developers still see this Warp/Hyperspace analogy as accurate. https://twitter.com/JagexStu/status/911893358758461440

As for Hostilius he's stretched out in the abyss. You refer to him as a "rift", but that seems to purely be based on the presence of Runecrafting teleports inside him. It's not that the Hostilius "abyss" and the normal "abyss" are seperate places, rather Hostilius takes up such a significant portion of the area of the abyss we access when teleporting that we end up inside him. You're still in the universal abyss no matter what. You're assuming Hostilius himself is important for teleportation, but apart from just being our access point I find that unlikely.

And as for the demon making a deal with Zanmaron. It's not that he has complete dominion over the entire dimension, but rather that he has the knowledge of how to strenghten its link to Gielinor. He's the keeper of the key to the abyss not the owner of it. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:27:53 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:31:59 by AesirWarrior

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As for names needing to be defined, I'd say the current lore marathon did exactly that. It established how the abyss relates to the planes and how they relate to the planets within. Not to mention Mod Stu's comments earlier in this thread that clarified some of the questions regarding it. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:35:05 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:35:41 by AesirWarrior

Sep

2014

Gamez X

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I call the wider abyss outer space because thats essentially what it is. Outer space for us holds all of our worlds in their structures, infact scientists even say space is full of something call dark matter which they describe as the invisible glue that holds structure in place. And as for the hyperspace thing, why can that not be the hostilus pathways, infact wasnt that exactly their purpose? You say that if your inside hostilus your still inside the wider abyss it sits in and thats true, but that also says your using hostilus to teleport around the abyss, not using the abyss itself. Both things are still true, you ARE travelling through the abyss yes and this is the canvas which holds all the worlds, but your specifically using hostilus inside this abyss to do that. Saying this would make the whole demon pact thing make ALOT more sense. The issue is for ages they've just called both things the abyss but we know they're subtly different things that one could interpret you use both to teleport with

Honestly i dont see why there seems to be a problem with this point, i thought it was fairly evident at this point. Only issue is the names being the same which is why i feel it necessary to start calling them different things

08-Oct-2017 18:47:39

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Everything we know indicates that if you removed Hostilius from the equation teleports would still function, because it's the nature of the abyss itself that allows it, not his presence. The gods, and even mortal races like demons, teleported for aeons before Zamorak strung hostilius up. -

I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?

- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 19:14:31

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RuneFest Lore [Spoilers, Duh]