RuneScape Forum Archive | Magic: Souls, Runes, and Gods

Jan

2023

Sliske

Posts: 9,275 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A thought then is as to whether there are varying types of 'energy'. There is something which varies Zaros and Seren at least, with the Mahjarrat being inclined to Zaros, whatever the distinction may be.

A possibility is that Zaros and Seren represent a similar concept as the Dark Lord to Seren; they are entire parts of Mah herself removed, containing both the power and mind relating to these parts. This would also explain Mah's slowly decaying mind as she creates more beings, as she is not just losing power, she's losing aspects of her mind.

This would also link as to how Mah was the Elder God intended to control the lesser beings, ensuring everything goes smoothly. She would be revered and feared, both logical and compassionate, able to be a conduit to the lesser beings that emerge. Unlike the other Elder Gods, she had some comprehension of lesser life, and this is all represented by Seren and Zaros now.

The Mahjarrat are just lesser fragments of her darker mind-energy (as somehow the mind and energy are linked in this regard).

Everyone dies.

Master of the Shadow Realm

29-Mar-2015 16:14:11

Darc Oejder

Posts: 501 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Interesting. But I think magic comes from anima and we can control it with runes or if skilled enough like the lunar clan without runes.

There is joy in combat that can't be found anywhere else.

29-Mar-2015 21:56:37

Jun

2010

Half Centaur

Posts: 6,959 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@EvilDylan, I hadn't thought much about Nomad from DAT- the reason I thought he could cheat death was that his soul was 'more than human'. I'll look into that section of dialogue again though. (reminds me, if you're familiar with Full Metal Alchemist, of the way homonculi's souls work)

As for the Elder gods, their goal is to farm up as much anima as possible, as it seems, so they can devour it all again and keep on keeping on. Makes me think they're fighting back entropy or something- trying to generate enough anima so they can hold on to the massive amount they have before it dissipates.

@Misery of Life, the problem with considering anima like a fuel source- yes, Zaros calls it the fuel of magic, but it doesn't appear to be finite. For example, I can cast fire blast all day on Freneskae (where the Anima is practically next to nothing) and the anima within my soul presumably doesn't decrease- I'm not using up my soul to use magic. The same can be said for others, even the gods. I believe Zamorak lost a tier because he just got a bit of the Anima stored within him blasted out...

@Sliske,

On runes, we know from the moonclan that runes are considered a 'catalyst' for magic, and are referenced as not truly needed to perform magic, yet we still need them- and unlike a normal catalyst they are used up in the reaction- stone included. Perhaps the Stone of Jas lends them a capacity of sorts to hold runic energy- but this capacity is easily used up.

On Mahjarrat, I would suggest that they merely bleed anima- and that they don't yet know how to harness it in such a manner to nourish themselves. Either that, or they contain some other form of energy inaccessible in the environment- Elder Energy maybe? I like to think of Anima as the 'mathematical derivative' of sorts to Runic Energy, perhaps Elder energy could be the same for Anima. "We call it being a hero"

"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

30-Mar-2015 00:11:28

Jun

2010

Half Centaur

Posts: 6,959 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thanks so much for the support everyone! I feel like its hard for threads like this to get much- threads that revolve around theories not 'my-faction-is-better-than-your-faction' tend to have a harder time surviving in the current climate of the Lore Forums. Personally, I'd very much like to change that- and I wholeheartedly encourage any other theories that may be brewing in your minds.

Darc Oejder said :
Interesting. But I think magic comes from anima and we can control it with runes or if skilled enough like the lunar clan without runes.

We know that without Anima, yes, there wouldn't be any magic at all. We also know for a fact that the Moonclan considers runes as catalyst- not truly neccessary for magic- and yet they are to us. That is why I hypothesize that runes merely contain raw elemental (or runic (runic is growing on meas a name)) energy.

This energy is whirling all around us- but lower beings such as us need the altars to tap into it- and store it. Higher beings like the Moonclan can pull it right from around them, altar or no. "We call it being a hero"

"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

30-Mar-2015 00:17:23

Jan

2023

Sliske

Posts: 9,275 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

wonderful, potential for discussion!

So, from what I gather from your response on elder energy is that you feel there are three primary types of matter: elder energy, which is the basis of anything, which is what Mah consists of, and what Mah used to make Zaros/Seren, and partially for the Mahjarrat. Then, this elder energy can be converted into anima, which is what most beings comprise of. Then, there is runic energy, which is what we use, but is not storable in any way. (Not sure what you mean by mathematical derivative, elder energy represents the rate of change of anima?).

My presumption then would be that rune stones, in this case, work as the catalyst for anima conversion, converting it from 'soul' to some other form of energy. As you point out above however, if they work even on places such as Freneskae, it'd seem far more likely that they themselves contain the converted energy. This again brings us back around to the point that the Stone itself doesn't cause the rocks to become anima-based (as that wouldn't help us at all in this case), and rather makes them containers of energy.

This somewhat comes full circle then, as if the stone allows for objects to contain actual energy (be it runic or a more generic concept as any energy), then one can only assume the same of beings. This then means that beings who've come into contact with the stone are able to store energy in their being, with their anima not changing. The concepts of energy holds and such are then covered in my earlier posts.

We could perhaps assume that maybe there is enough anima in Freneskae for rune conversion from anima to runic energy (as catalysts), but then we have to ask how does the Stone help Gods? If it allows conversion of anima to a non-storable runic energy, that's not much use for anyone.

Everyone dies.

Master of the Shadow Realm

30-Mar-2015 10:13:14

Jan

2023

Sliske

Posts: 9,275 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I certainly like your idea that elder energy is different from both anima and other forms of energy (such as those found on Gielinor).

Now, to bring in some very different perspectives, I have a few quotes from HoS:

Jas-face:
I am tied into the Anima Mundi directly and it is that which Xenia endangers. It is the power that flows through the world, the spark that gives it what you call magic, amongst other things. Xenia has damaged that flow and risks losing that power forever, damaging the world irreparably. If that power is lost forever, then only those who possess artefacts will possess any magical power. And they are undeserving of such monopoly.

So, this would imply that the magic we are able to access via stones does indeed come directly from the anima Mundi, and a world without anima mundi had no magic.

Xenia:
The elder gods feed on the Anima Mundi, the natural flow of energy in the world. If we were to take that energy and siphon it away, then the elder gods would never wake up.

Everyone dies.

Master of the Shadow Realm

30-Mar-2015 10:57:49 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2015 14:25:46 by Sliske

Jun

2010

Half Centaur

Posts: 6,959 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, my mind was busy in other places and other threads...

Ah, yeah, mathematical derivative isn't a very good term I suppose, allow me to clarify- Beings that possess Anima energy are able to manipulate runic energy, using slight fluctuations in their own Anima- beings that possess elder energy are able to manipulate Anima by fluctuating elder energy. The exception to that rule would be that gods, beings who possess Anima (and perhaps elder energy to a small degree) are unable to manipulate runic energy adequately as it would be like trying to knock down dominoes with a wrecking ball- or a shark trying to swim through a kitchen faucet- their energy structure is to vast to do anything small.

I like the idea of energy holding though. Say in the same way beings with anima are able to manipulate runic energy- some are able to hold it as well, without runes. In the same manner the world holds runic energy onto itself through use of its own soul - the Anima Mundi. So, the Stone of Jas can impart Anima onto its users- but on rocks, it gives them slight Anima traces, not enough to endow sentience, but enough to create a tool for other sentient beings. Runestones lack the anima needed to manipulate runic energy on their own accord, however runic energy can be shoved into them, as they still have some trace anima. "We call it being a hero"

"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

09-Apr-2015 22:04:55

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

For the wand of resurrection how would it most likely be used to bring back the centaurs if by now most of them would be fully decomposed to the point of being skeletonised?? Some centaurs are still alive in the enchanted valley dimension which you can travel to with a fairy ring. How will their flesh be restored?

If a solution is found to bringing them back without corruption and its possible to reflesh them somehow then maybe the same could be done for all the saradominist human warriors in the crypt. If brought back saradomin could have a massive army and they could share with us some lost secrets of war. Have some real saradominist warriors populate his kingdoms instead of just the watered down ones like the varrock guards.

06-Jul-2015 05:20:41 - Last edited on 06-Jul-2015 05:34:45 by Padomenes

Jun

2010

Half Centaur

Posts: 6,959 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :
snippity snip.

Using the wand took a lot out of Dawn, I would say it drains the lifeforce of the user in some way (which would also be why Elora eventually died)- which is why, as Saradomin said, only a god could save Owen, manipulating the tether between the soul and the body as Dawn did, probably made it even more difficult to mend- meaning you would need even more anima to save him- more than we possess, but not so for a god.

Repairing the centaur corpses would test the body healing capabilities of the wand- which, while the magic to heal corpses may be unique in nature, doesn't seem to be rather difficult- I mean given enough food we could heal a living person in this game easily. whether Saradomin could save *that* many souls is an entirely different matter, and likely he couldn't. Especially without corruption, unless his character changes in someway and he 'atones'.

What I would consider the best solution would either be finding a way to heal the corruption, and then use that to heal the risen (put them in some sort of quarantine facility in the meantime) - or simply have Saradomin attempt to channel his power thru us. The former seems more probable- but it certainly wouldn't help Saradomin's armies in the short term- he'd have to spend way more troops to keep the corrupted safe, hidden, and healing, which in the 6th age battles we've seen, would cost him dearly. "We call it being a hero"

"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

18-Jul-2015 02:18:13

iXavior

Posts: 390 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

My theory is that runes are like magnets that pull out specific forms of elemental energies from the environment (anima mundi). I don't think they hold the raw energy themselves. Altars are capable of drawing out specific energies from the environment (as you said). But what if you expose a rune essence to altar, it does not store the rune with elemental energy, but rather the altar shares its ability to draw out the specific element from the environment, as well.

And (just a crazy idea) what if the altar is just one big rune essence with the ability to draw specific energies from the environment? Think about it. Altars are gray, just like a rune essence. They have a circular dome-ish shape with a flat bottom, just like a rune essence (when you drop it on a floor).

This theory makes total sense. Elemental staves are able to draw out specific energy from the environment. They may not be able to hold it, like an essence, but the energy gives you enough time to cast a spell.

I also have a slightly different theory. I found this description on the official runescape wikia (which is now run and edited by jmods only). It might not be correct though, because sometimes jmods are not lorehounds lke us and may have no idea what they are saying.

"Runes are weightless stones that have been imbued with power and can be used to cast spells.

They are the basic catalysts used to train the Magic skill, and serve as focuses for the innate magical powers of their users."

What this means that runes are "catalysts" that temporarily heighten our ability to draw out a specific energy from the environment (mundi). This sort of explains the lunar clan's ability to use magic without runes. They've used magic so much that their bodies just evolved and adjusted to drawing out magical energy without any training wheels. I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

18-Jul-2015 07:15:07