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Death of Agency & Roleplay

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Roland Lyons
Mar Member 2014

Roland Lyons

Posts: 3,475 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Alls I'm saying is I appreciate the effort that Jagex put into the first story arc of the Sixth Age, Sliske's Game, the second God Wars, whatever you want to call it. There was no way you could make it work in a game like Runescape. Even in games like WoW and SWTOR I think all plotlines come to the same conclusion. But alas, the huge player driven narrative was never meant to be.

I welcome the linear plot we can expect from the Elder Gods arc and just hope that Raven, Jack, and any other big lore writers put their best into it. Cheers.

By the way, the best games by far that I've played when it comes to roleplaying and player agency, if that's what you want are New Vegas and Pathfidner Kingmaker. Other recommendations like these are welcome.

BY THE WAY: To Last Prophet, the OP, and anyone else interested. I'm currently in the process of writing something of a homebrew Runescape quest that involves player agency, previous quest choices effecting outcomes and even the starting point. Not something that could ever be added to the game because I'm ignoring engine limitations and whatnot. It's in a very rough state and it's a passion project of mine. Protip: Hazeel, you might like it. Add me on Discord, Moldy#0944 if you're interested.
I will protect Gielinor. Zaros has no love for its people.

-Saradomin, Polemarchos Autokrator

02-Mar-2021 04:10:07 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2021 04:15:25 by Roland Lyons

Derack
Jul Member 2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Reality is often disappointing."
The thought of shaping the 6age was nice, unreal, but nice as it lasted.
Just as world events were dumb if not just stupid to begin with.
If not all a mistake from the beginging.

Eitherway, it's mostly a shame they didn't went with the neutral approuch during endgame.
The choices one can make during it should have some sort of effect in dialogue atleast thb.

At the start 6age i went against Saradomin as much as possible, yet, during Azzy's quest he sounded way to much neutral then he should, even Padomenes with his "Foul heathen!" and "You will burn in the righteous flames", and now "Hail World Guardian", i mean like wut? What's with the diffirent attitude Pado?

I do wonder what their plan with the god's in general is going to be at the end of all this, as well with the godless. I dunno, but i kinda feel a bit hopeful that it will be a propper choice we can make at the end of this.
At best we talk or give the god's a good smack and they will just leave Gielinor at least, now that the stone is gone they don't have much to fight for aside from their skins or their dull pride and beliefs. No, just leave Gielinor to the World guardian i say.

As well i do think we could have a form of peace with one another judging from some dialogue, sort of.

Zamorak: Peace failed long ago Player. It died and we should let it pass.

Zamorak: I am not without reason Saradomin and the World Guardian has raised a good point. There is more at stake here than our rivalry. And I can always kill you later.

Armadyl: We could have been reasoned with. We would have listened. We would have accepted a graceful surrender.

I don't think i have Mod Ollie quote any more, but from what i remember, it was about whatever Arma could co-exist with the other god's.
Which Ollie replied he could work together with some, but it will be decided/choice by the player regarding it. Not sure if his word have any vallue anymore, but one can only hope i suppose.
"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

02-Mar-2021 14:35:45

Androme

Androme

Posts: 6,474 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dennorak said :
Jagex is specifically doing away with meaningful player choice on the basis of it being an absolute nightmare to do justice content wise.

Jagex really hasn’t been able to deliver consistent content as is, let alone having to take player choice into account.

I do think dialogue options are needed but the idea that Zaros should not be allowed to... well, act like Zaros because the player can declare support for his faction is wrong IMO.

That being said, dialogue indicating your faction choice *should* be used, it’s just not feasible to have an actual impact on the flow of the story.

Good post and agreed. It was a mistake to give us choice from the beginning in my opinion. It was shiny and new and we all got excited for it, but truth to be told; Everyone is right when they say that it's hard to do proper choices justice.

Choices should exist and affect dialogue; you can do that, no problem. But more than that? Not viable.

Sorry Zarosians.

05-Mar-2021 23:56:31

Lord Pyro I
Nov Member 2018

Lord Pyro I

Posts: 4,255 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This whole thread seems to be in denial as to a single simple point.

Maybe it turns out you choose wrong?

I don't think the choice has any value without the opportunity to see wildly different consequences to you personally depending on which decision was made. Unfortunately, that means that some players will find themselves regretting their choice before the end. "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"
#WarIsComing

16-Apr-2021 12:40:21

Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

Posts: 3,525 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Pyro I said :
This whole thread seems to be in denial as to a single simple point.

Maybe it turns out you choose wrong?

I don't think the choice has any value without the opportunity to see wildly different consequences to you personally depending on which decision was made. Unfortunately, that means that some players will find themselves regretting their choice before the end. I was just thinking something like this.
It's no longer about which faction you choose to help, it's about which faction you choose to believe will benefit you. Instead of you forcing the story to go in one direction, you now have to play the guessing game. You have to figure out which faction is going to win, which one is going to lose. Which one is trustworthy, which one will deceive you?
I think, in a way, it forces the player to be smarter than the Player Character (which is not hard, the way Jagex writes them. I'm fairly certain my cat is the superior intellect the way Jagex writes us), and predict what's going to happen, rather than trying to force it. A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate .

20-Apr-2021 14:27:51

The Mather1
May Member 2008

The Mather1

Posts: 1,172 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sepulchre said :
It's no longer about which faction you choose to help, it's about which faction you choose to believe will benefit you. Instead of you forcing the story to go in one direction, you now have to play the guessing game. You have to figure out which faction is going to win, which one is going to lose. Which one is trustworthy, which one will deceive you?

Problem with that is we're not a faction. Whether one of the factions is helping or obstructing us is entirely subjective. We do not have any predefined duty or goal beyond a very vague "protect Gielinor", which we don't even have any obligation to fulfill.
The World Guardian has always been a rogue element, with no agency to aid or oppose beyond whatever we were doing at that exact moment.

So there's no guessing who might oppose us, because it's entirely up to what the player sees as opposition. What we have to guess is which factions Jagex will decide to no longer have us abide.

Different players expect different treatment from the gods, and we have absolutely nothing to go on for what the WG wants from them, so it really is just us being randomly forced to go against our will.
"Abscondita est in Astra."

20-Apr-2021 20:41:36

Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

Posts: 3,525 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The Mather1 said :
Sepulchre said :
It's no longer about which faction you choose to help, it's about which faction you choose to believe will benefit you. Instead of you forcing the story to go in one direction, you now have to play the guessing game. You have to figure out which faction is going to win, which one is going to lose. Which one is trustworthy, which one will deceive you?

Problem with that is we're not a faction. Whether one of the factions is helping or obstructing us is entirely subjective. We do not have any predefined duty or goal beyond a very vague "protect Gielinor", which we don't even have any obligation to fulfill.
The World Guardian has always been a rogue element, with no agency to aid or oppose beyond whatever we were doing at that exact moment.

So there's no guessing who might oppose us, because it's entirely up to what the player sees as opposition. What we have to guess is which factions Jagex will decide to no longer have us abide.

Different players expect different treatment from the gods, and we have absolutely nothing to go on for what the WG wants from them, so it really is just us being randomly forced to go against our will. All Jagex has to do is make it more obvious which gods don't like us rather than all of them just acting indifferent or neutral. A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate .

21-Apr-2021 20:40:38

Jaekob Caed
Apr Member 2011

Jaekob Caed

Posts: 7,173 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Personally, I feel like the roleplaying aspect has been significantly amped up in recent years since RS3's launch. The world events (which need to make a return), god emissaries, basic choice and consequence in quests (which is difficult for an MMO) and so forth, it all helps to aid in the roleplaying IMO. ~
Jaekob Caed
: Scribe, Scholar and Prince of the Kingdom of Heaven ~
The Jagex I once loved is dead... A THREAD

08-Aug-2021 14:25:38

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