RuneScape Forum Archive | The Value of Money

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

This thread will explore several questions relating to money in Gielinor and its value. It's not extensive, and focuses mainly on humans and gp currency. Since Jagex doesn't focus on making money lore consistent, this thread will be mostly speculative. I'll be looking for the most reasonable and consistent answers to questions, rather than the "true" answers, which do not exist.

While some of my sources are solid lore, like npc quotes, others are more questionable "pseudo-lore", such as shop prices (G.E prices will not be considered at all). I'll be using inductive reasoning and irl comparisons. In addition, a lot of this thread is in the form of personal notes, and not really professional. For these reasons, I'd advise people reading this thread to take it lightly, and perhaps see it more as headcanon.

I've tried to find as many sources as possible, but there might still be relevant lore tidbits hiding here and there, some of which may make or break my theories. If anyone finds more sources, please do post them below and I will try to incorporate them. You can of-course discuss your own theories and talk about things related to money that I didn't discuss. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:21:16 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2016 18:04:34 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Table of Contents

1. Definitions -------------------------------- 1.3
2. How much money do NPC's make? -------- 1.4
3. Houses ------------------------------------1.7
4. Taxes --------------------------------------1.9
5. Jobs/Favors ------------------------------- 1.10
6. Bribes ------------------------------------- 1.10
7. Food & Drink -------------------------------2.1
8. Clothing -----------------------------------2.3
9. Jewellery ---------------------------------- 2.4
10. Furniture/Silverware -----------------------2.5
11. Pets/Animals ------------------------------ 2.6
12. Weapons/Armour ------------------------- 2.7
13. Runes -------------------------------------2.8
14. Whats costs thousands of gp? --------------2.9
15. Inflation Theory --------------------------- 2.10
16. Things that don't fit ------------------------3.2
17. Bonus: Gnomes ----------------------------3.3
18. Bonus: Value comparison ------------------ 3.4 I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:22:00 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:40:20 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Definitions

Some terms I'll be using occasionally.

PGPE
Pound-GP Equivalence is basically the thesis of this thread. It claims that loosely, we can consider 1 British pound to be equivalent to 1 gp. This shouldn’t sound terribly surprising, as Jagex is a British company, but this still requires backing up in lore.

SFD
Small Factor Discrepancy is what happens when several pieces of lore and/or irl comparisons do not agree exactly, but have a relatively small margin of error. Although the exact numbers are not important, I'll say something is SFD if it agrees with an error of 200%, or 300% in extreme cases. Anything with SFD is good enough for our purposes.

LFD
Large Factor Discrepancy is what happens when the margin of error is extremely large, like 1,000% or 10,000%. Obviously, we can't work with LFD. Either some pieces of lore will have to be overlooked, or we will have to find ways of making things consistent. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:26:19 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:27:24 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

How much money do NPC's make?

If we are going to talk about money, it seems reasonable to start with how much money the average npc makes, and go from there. There are a few sources, not all terribly impressive, but as we get into later sections, the proposed values should seem reasonable enough.

The first and best source is Sandy's Rota from Hand in the Sand. This scroll reveals that Bert typically works from 9am-6pm, and makes 50gp a day. Since Bert seems like the average NPC, this sets 50gp as a good number for how much the average NPC makes. My personal opinion is that he's on the poorer side, as he has poor clothes and lives in the smallest house in Yanille.

Another source is Fior, a factory worker who is in the Kledagrim Rat Pits. Here's what he says.

Player: Hi. What are you doing?
Fior: Relaxing after a long day at the factor. If I keep up this winning streak, I mightn’t have to go into work tomorrow.
Player: Do you mind me asking how much you have won?
Fior: Not at all, I’m up 10 coins so far.

This seems to imply that a few more coins is how much Fior makes a day at the factory, so let's say 15-20gp. Perhaps a little too conjectural, but it is consistent with our previous result of 50gp for the average NPC, as the rats pits are in east Keldagrim, and the NPC's in East Keldagrim are extremely poor.

In The Fued, Ali Morrisane offers to give you the first month salary of his nephew if you find him.

Ali Morissane: ...Although you can help me in another way, a nephew of mine lives not too far from here in a little town called Pollnivneach. If you could fetch him here I'll give you the first month of his salary!

At the end of the quest, Ali gives you 500gp. This means 500gp is how much Ali's newphew was to earn that month, which comes out to be about 16gp a day. This is about the same as how much Fior makes. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:39:27 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:26:51 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

This seems really poor. However, 1) Ali Morrisane is the type to give really low wages 2) It's only a starting salary, and 3) It's a SFD, so it's all fine, and 4) The nephew probably doesn't exist. Now, you might argue that since the nephew doesn't exist, it disqualifies the example, but I think it is a relevant and useful source.

Poh Servants are potentially the most important example, as it tells us how much money NPC's of different social hierarchies make. However, there is a major flaw with it: We don't know how often the NPC's get paid. Game-mechanic wise, you have to pay servants every 8th use, but that is hardly realistic and doesn't say anything about time. So without any information, we'll have to pick one of the generic times: daily, weekly, biweekly, or monthly pay.

Monthly pay causes the same problem as before: Rick and the Royal Guard would make 16gp a day, which is basically poverty. I don't know about Rick, but it seems too much to assume for the Royal Guard. If we go daily however, then that means the cheapest servants are getting 500gp a day. That's a LFD compared to the other three sources, so it's going to be hard to support. We are then left with weekly or biweekly, which means they get either ~35gp or ~70gp a day, which is consistent with our previous sources.

On firmer grounds, the Butler makes 5,000gp, or 10 times as much money as Rick or the Royal Gaurd (I'll omit the demon butler as he's not human). Since he claims to have worked for aristocracy, he is not the richest person, but is definitely in the upper class. The cook makes 3,000gp and also claims to have worked for aristocracy, so let's say she's somewhere between middle class and upper class. The maid only makes 1,000gp, twice as much as Rick and the Royal Guard. From her dialogue, you can only tell that she is quite clumsy, so at best we can say she's a well-to-do middle class. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:41:08 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:26:20 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Lastly, we have the Duke's Dilemma during WE1. In second week, more guardsmen were voted in. It cost 30,000gp and 5 new guardsmen were added. Now, while you never really know how long a battle lasts, and the guards stayed after the battle, let's say the money was for the last 8 weeks of the battle. With each guard getting 6,000gp and there being 56 days, each is getting about 100gp a day. More than the 50gp estimate for Bert, but 1) We are being very loose here, and SFD still applies 2) Guards might earn more than sand collectors.

Using these sources, I suggest the following range estimates:
(Note: Holidays, sick-days and other off days are not considered)

Extremely Poor: 10-20gp a day, or 3,650gp-7,300gp a year
Middle Class (slightly poor?): 50gp a day, or 18,250gp a year
Well to do Middle Class: 100-150gp a day, or 36,500gp-54,750gp a year
Middle/Upper Class: 300gp-500gp a day, or 109,500gp-182,250gp a year

It shouldn't be difficult to see that these estimates are close to irl salaries, so so we have our first support for PGPE already. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:42:52 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:25:55 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Houses

How much does a house cost?

The obvious first place too look is Poh's. It costs 1,000gp to buy your first poh. This might seem like too little considering how much I've estimated npc's make. However, 1,000gp won't get you much for a house, except for an empty shack. Considering average NPC's would have kitchens, dining rooms and bedrooms (albeit usually all three in one room), lots of stuff inside their houses, and second floors, 1,000gp no longer seems tenable. We are talking more a few tens of thousand gp. If we look at poh relocation, that costs between 5,000gp-50,000gp. Now, poh relocation is not the same as buying a new house, but it's similar in a way and that also supports an estimate of tens of thousand of gp.

There is better source in the Duke's Dilemma. In the first week, the vote was between spending 20,000gp to repair a dilapidated house for a Saradominist or Zamorakian family, and spending 40,000gp to repair the house and turn it into a refugee shelter. Now, repairing destroyed houses is not the same as buying a new house, but once again it's evidence that houses have a factor of tens of thousands of gp in price.

Runvastr, a dwarf in East Keldagrim, spent 90 years paying for his house. Now, East Keldagrim dwarfs are poor, and if we stick with the 10-20gp estimate we got from Fior, then the dwarves are paying anywhere between 1-10gp every day for their house, perhaps on the lower end. Assuming a reasonable value of 4gp (as it's a SFD of 2 and 8gp), then in 90 years, 4*365*90 = 131,400gp, which is about right for an irl not-so-great house in pounds. Although I'd still be cautious and say "(many?) tens of thousands" instead of "a few hundred thousands" for the average npc house. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:43:36 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:25:24 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Evidence of Mortgages/Rent in Runescape

From the Restless Ghost.

Player: I've come to repossess your house.
Father Urhney: On what grounds?
Player: Repeated failure to make mortgage repayments.
Father Urhney: What? But I don't have a mortgage - I built this house myself.

From Buyers and Cellars - part of Darren's speech.

Darren Lightfinger: ...I offer you the freedom to live your life without the need to worry whether your rent will be paid this month...

PGPE/Irl Examples

It costs 35gp to spend the night at Paramaya Inn at Shilo Village. 35 pounds is a reasonable price to pay for a motel room irl.

Continuing the example of Runvastr: The the average NPC make 3-10 times more than the East Keldagrim dwarf. Then that means it takes 9-30 years for the average npc to pay for their homes, which again is more or less comparable to irl. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:45:37 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:24:35 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Taxes

Evidence of Income/Sales Tax

Unlocked Dairy (ie. Sandy's diary).

14th Septober, 168
Loan paid off. Workers getting shirty about pay. Up to my neck in paperwork and Postie Pete delivered a letter from the tax man today. Things not looking good. Going back to bed as it's raining outside.

Noterazzo in Bandit Camp.

Noterazzo: Hey, wanna trade? I'll give the best deals you can find.
Player: How can you afford to give such good deals?
Noterazzo: The generals stores in Asgarnia and Misthalin are heavily taxed. It really makes it hard for them to run an effective business. For some reasons taxmen don't visit my store.

Carpenter in Sophanem.

Carpenter: ...I've recently worked out a decent supply which bypasses the grey economy.
Player: Grey economy?
Carpenter: It's selling bits and pieces through unofficial channels, avoiding taxes and import duty.

King Gjuki Sorvo** IV during the Fremennik Isles.

King Gjuki Sorvo** IV: ...We must raise more taxes.
Thorkel Silkbeard: But we have already collected Island Taxes this month! We'll never persuade anyone to pay it. Everyone is surviving on coppers as it is.
King Gjuki Sorvo** IV: Yes, well, whatever. Needs must. Think up a new tax.
...
King Gjuki Sorvo** IV: Yes, I was having a discussion with King Vargas the other day. He was saying some places have taxes for all kinds of things; fur taxes, blueberry taxes, tea taxes, playing card taxes.

So we have monthly income taxes, sales tax , taxmen who go and collect the taxes and a "grey economy" which exists partially to avoid taxes.

Additionally, in the Fremennik Isles, we collect several thousand gp from Jatizso locals as taxes. Now, these are taxes in additional to normal taxes (and apparently make the citizens bankrupt), but it nether-less provides support for monthly/yearly taxes in the thousands of gp. This in turn is very loosely consistent with the estimates for how much money npc's make. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:47:19 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:23:58 by Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

Posts: 1,658 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Jobs/Favors

In addition to salary, another sort of question one might ask is how much a job or favor typically is worth. Here are a few examples:

In Rat Catchers, it costs 50gp for the rat charmer to teach you how to charm rats.
On Karamja, you get 30gp for filling a crate with bananas.
In Rocking Out, the Bartender gives you 20gp to take a note to Captain Braindeath.
In The Fued, it take 10gp to convince the street urchin to distract people.

Not a lot of data, surely, but they are all consistent in that they are in the tens of gp. A bit hard maybe to associate these tasks with time, so you can't say they support the salary figures, but you can't say that they contradict it either.

Bribes

Related to jobs and favors, we have bribes. Maybe an odd choice for a discussion about money, but I think it's relevant as it reveals how much money is considered "significant amount" to the average npc.

During the Grand Tree, it costs 1,000gp to bribe Femi if you didn't help her.
In RFD: Mountain dwarf, it costs 200gp for Emily to slip the secret recipe.
In Gertude's Cat, it costs 100gp for Gertudes kids to tell you their secret hideout (it was initially 10, but Wilough raised it. The money apparently will be used to buy expensive chocolate).
During The General's Shadow, it costs 40gp to bribe Sin Seer.
During Shied of Arrav, it costs 20gp to get a Pheonix Gang member to reveal the hideout at risk of getting in trouble.
During Tourist, 5gp is a casual bribe in the mining camp. At some point you offer 5-20gp that you will win a bet.

Even removing the 1,000gp outlier from the equation, it's clear to see that bribes come in a bit of a range, from 5gp to 200gp, with an average of 73gp. The exact number is not important, as we can use SFD here if necessary. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

15-Jan-2016 04:47:54 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:23:17 by Eren Lapucet

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The Value of Money