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Eva Element

Eva Element

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How many games have 2 different combat systems mixed into the same game?

I can't even think of any game that follows this trend. While every game can allow an individual player to develop their own play styles no game forcibly mixes two combat systems into the same game.

Dark Souls and Dynasty Warriors are two different games with two distinctively different combat systems. Trying to forcibly combine them in one game would cause a world a problems.

If you had the same number of NPC's attacking the player as you do in DW in any Dark Souls game you would be dead instantly. Equally given Dark Souls is designed for 1 vs 1 to 1 vs small handful trying to fight like you would on Dark Souls would take forever to clear enemies in DW.

Either combat system in either game would result in the game being to hard for one and to easy for the other one. Both are so different there is no middle ground to be found. Rather then getting the almost universally praised Ringed City DLC as the final send off of the Dark Souls series. We would have instead got some watered down final DLC were the final fight with Gael he just kind of stands there and lets us attack him to allow the DW combat system to fight against him. The result being a shitty DLC for a shitty game that doesn't please people who like Dark Souls games or people who like DW games.

Which is basically EOC and Legacy. New content save bosses since legacy's introduction have been dumbed down. Because of legacy all Pre EoC content hasn't vaugly been updated to take EoC into account. Legacy struggles against even older bosses compared to EOC. While so much content barely even presents a challenge to anyone not watching netflix in another window that EoC not just feels but is completely pointless in so much content. I'm a big entropy fan.

All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

30-Sep-2018 05:49:06

Eva Element

Eva Element

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EoC will never be fully developed and Legacy will always be left behind. Neither system will flourish and neither system makes their respective people happy.

Jagex is trying to force mobile, legacy and eoc all into one single game despite all the key differences that makes it a bad idea. The whole situation isn't really making people of any party really happy about it. EoC players aren't happy that EoC is basically meaningless in so much content and that abilities are basically just adrenaline spam. Legacy players aren't happy because Legacy still gets behind EoC in so much and it isn't real Pre EoC combat. Mobile players can't access or play the full game because of the limitations a mobile phone can have. And a fundamental basic of any game is you should be able to access all of it on the platform you play it on.


Forcing 3 different systems into a single game is a problem. It is great for limping the game along for a few more years but ultimately it will not help it grow in popularity. Trying to please everyone means you will please no one. Without a single system to focus on it becomes a cluster mess of inconsistencies and pointlessness. It might please the existing player base that is more obsessed with being right in what ever small way. But for new players getting on the game it will just look like a steaming pile of poo by developers who don't understand even the fundamental basics of how a game should be made.

Jagex needs to pick one and rebuild the game around it. At this point I don't care which one it is. They need to shit or get off the pot. I'm a big entropy fan.

All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

30-Sep-2018 05:49:16

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Eva Element said :

Jagex needs to pick one and rebuild the game around it. At this point I don't care which one it is. They need to shit or get off the pot.

Like I said in my own way, they should've just went all in on the new combat system which essentially became RS3 over time and scrapped RS2, just like they eventually did with RSC, instead of bending over backwards for those who refused to accept change - keep in mind I was one such person when EOC was first introduced all those years ago, so I'm not blindly praising; initially I hated the new combat system but after forcing myself to learn it after a 5+ year hiatus I actually heavily prefer it over the former system.

Jagex shot themselves in the foot by going through with Old School because at this point Old School is basically a subpar version of RS3 graphically speaking to the point where it's not even really what it's trying to replicate: RS2. Which begs the question, if they just stuck it out with RS3 does that not mean those people would have eventually returned (just like I did) and eventually warmed up to RS3? I reckon they would have and if they didn't.. oh well. At least then, and what I'm assuming what they're trying to do, Jagex wouldn't be trying to figure out a way to create a single game that can accommodate a single community instead of having it effectively segregated over which version is better.

Part of me thinks it's technically impossible thus will never be achievable but if there's even a sliver of possibility Jagex needs to figure out a way to merge the two versions into one that satifies both sides. The community is what made RS great all those years ago, having it split only holds it back - I remember the days when you'd have trouble getting into nearly every world if you didn't get on in time and would have to settle for one that had hardly anyone on it. Now? That's basically what almost every world is like - hardly anyone on them.

30-Sep-2018 08:12:08

Eva Element

Eva Element

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Daibhi said :
...

OSRS isn't an issue. It has a player base that is large enough to support it. Granted I do think it is doomed because they didn't address the fundamental flaws in that combat system. But as long as it it is able to sustain it self and doesn't detract from RS3 I really don't care.

The problem is trying to force Legacy and EoC into the same game rather then not update the game to match either. Then throwing mobile into the mix as well.

I'm only one person and one person will not make them change anything. But I'm not even going to think about resubscribing to this game until they pick one combat system and at least start updating the game to match it. I'd rather spend money on renting a server for Ark Survival Evolved. I'm a big entropy fan.

All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

01-Oct-2018 00:45:45

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Eva Element said :

OSRS isn't an issue. It has a player base that is large enough to support it. Granted I do think it is doomed because they didn't address the fundamental flaws in that combat system. But as long as it it is able to sustain it self and doesn't detract from RS3 I really don't care.

The problem is trying to force Legacy and EoC into the same game rather then not update the game to match either. Then throwing mobile into the mix as well.


They're both issues in their own ways. The combat system, like you mentioned, having two different systems and what I've said in that Jagex has basically segregated their own community in such a way that it's turned into a childish feud over which version is better (which is RS3, this is coming from someone who has played the game since the only version of it was RSC) .

Now that I think of it I actually think the two might share something in common which is trying to keep everyone happy - those who accepted the changes and those that didn't at the time/still to this day don't. Which goes back to when I said they should have just went all in when they first implemented EOC then what eventually became RS3 instead of trying to juggle multiple balls at once namely RS2 (AKA. Old School) and RS3.

It's because, in my opinion, Jagex tried to make everyone happy with those decisions that the game is in the situation that it is which is divided and has been limping along ever since. As for the newer combat system vs legacy, RS3 seems to be heavily centered around the newer system based on its mechanics so either they dumb RS3 down or scrap legacy .

I've played the game long enough to experience it's evolution first hand day by day from RSC to RS2 and then RS3 so Jagex going backwards in any way seems like a really stupid decision to me and as such I will never understand why OS even exists or the legacy combat system. Once they split the community that'swhen it went south

01-Oct-2018 12:13:20

Conandubal

Conandubal

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I could not make this point at the survey because it only affects the combat part of Runescape, but it could result into a drastic improvement if you could change the combat mechanic and interface to be similar of the game Heretic. Heretic was released at 1994 and today is abandonware and it can be played on Windows 7 or W10 using the Dosbox.

As you can imagine this game has not excellent graphics, but they are good enough for all the players who enjoyed it and still enjoy it. When we talk about combat in this game we talk about anticipation. The fireballs coming from monsters are fast but you can dodge it with arrow left right, plan not to have too many monsters shooting at you at the same time, killing they where you can the best way you can and of course paying attention to what's arround you. This kind of interface (clear environment, anticipation, movement that feels very free, multiple combat options, improvisation and the posibility to develop tactics in a blink of an eye) is the one I wish we could have for the combat part in Runescape.

I know we may already have some of those, but if we talk about the combat part at least for me Runescape is not even close to be as fun as Heretic. RS kills feels much more like a work you have to do to get loot by clicking and waiting until your character does the job. If you wanna afk and those mobs are aggresive then RS is perfect, but if you wanna play it active then it's not a combat to spend time having fun. With bosses you can develop some tactics but I don't feel the movement is fast and free enough, neither are many options in the combat management itself.

Runescape has many things Heretic doesn't have, as it's only a single player adventure horror game focused only in combat. But it's amazing how a combat interface of an old game can still be funnier than combat in other more recent games.

RS has many other things, this is not a critic but an advice that can be useful to make a big improvement of RS as a whole.

01-Oct-2018 12:50:59 - Last edited on 01-Oct-2018 13:37:48 by Conandubal

Lime Slushy

Lime Slushy

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From what I gathered from the survey, it seems Jagex is wanting to make a much different game, set in the RS universe... I would enjoy the theme of Gielinor in the distant future honestly, not sure about anyone else. Maybe instead of going into the 7th age we could be in like the 10th or so age and learn what happened in the past 4 ages like we have with current RS.

That does bring up an interesting prospect- elite skills like invention are meant to be the player blazing a trail and new opportunities being put forth. What would that mean hundreds of years later for the lore? Would we see a bigger world with more continents discovered through new sailing techniques, full of powerful technology made possible through divine energy and ingenious minds, where medical care and a touch of necromantic magic has basically made one's lifespan indefinite? How would that affect day to day life? How would it affect warfare, the dangers posed by monsters that slayers dedicate their lives to killing, and what would it mean in the grand scheme of things if one could travel all the way to other realms like Leng or Vampyrium with all this?

01-Oct-2018 14:06:17

Conandubal

Conandubal

Posts: 188 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Conandubal said :
I could not make this point at the survey because it only affects the combat part...
So, is it possible to have both experiences (a more pasive or afk play and an active play for fun) inside the same game?

Well, I remember another old game named Dungeon Keeper (1997) where you played in a third person mining your dungeon, collecting resources, building things, dwelling many kinds of creatures and sending them in groups to kill the heroes armies that were trying to destroy your creepy army and dungeon, but at any time you could posses any of your monsters and play the game in a first person view with the speed, spells, health, etc. of that monster you possesed. That allowed the player to have 2 totally different experiences, once as a manager of the dungeon (typical strategy game of collect resources, build things and make army) and the other one inside a monster dodging, shooting and trying to kill as many enemies as possible (with usually allowed you to kill much more enemies before your servant died if you are a good player, specially if you possesed a high rank monster with good power to play with).

There may be other ways to develop active combat or skills while developing also a pasive or afk ways to play the game, because a mix of both modes result in something with is both real life time consuming and boring. But this possibility of switching play modes has already been in games.

01-Oct-2018 14:07:00 - Last edited on 01-Oct-2018 14:09:39 by Conandubal

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