RuneScape Forum Archive | Remove Price Check threads

Miu

Posts: 16,950 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The item discussion subforum is a forum where people are meant to discuss items.

However, in practice the forum is primarily price-check threads.

Fmods lock duplicate price-check threads, as to prevent unnecessary item overlapping. This means that the OP of any particular item thread now has a monopoly on information flow. They can choose what price to put in their original post.

Accusations of price manipulation are against the rules in item discussion. Allegations are serious, and the forum has its own dedicated sticky, since apparently this issue is so hotly contested that even fmods aren't allowed to intervene, for fears of corruption. Jmods themselves dole out punishments and investigate the price manipulation, like posting fake prices. (But we don't even know how often Jagex checks this...?)

All this goes against what I think the original purpose of the item discussions forum is: a place to discuss items. But what we find is people don't care about the items - they just care about gold. And an extreme amount of moderation is required to keep things sanitary there. And yet, why? Do we truly need price checking threads when the grand exchange has existed for over a decade?

Trust trades aren't allowed on the forums, so why are price check threads where you have to "trust" the user has posted something truthful be allowed?

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24-Jun-2021 23:06:06

Apr

2012

Finance

Posts: 56,428 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

No support.

Miu said :
Fmods lock duplicate price-check threads, as to prevent unnecessary item overlapping. This means that the OP of any particular item thread now has a monopoly on information flow. They can choose what price to put in their original post. Price check threads typically don't provide prices in the opening post. People look at the last post(s) on the thread, which can be written by anybody. From an organization perspective, it does not make sense for prices of similar items to be distributed across numerous threads.

Miu said :
All this goes against what I think the original purpose of the item discussions forum is: a place to discuss items. The price of an item is (arguably) the most important attribute for discussion--the uses of items can be found in the wiki. If you shut down price check threads, the item discussion forum will become a ghost town.

Miu said :
Do we truly need price checking threads when the grand exchange has existed for over a decade? Many items are not traded on the grand exchange, or are traded very thinly, such that the GE guide prices are not particularly helpful.

Miu said :
Trust trades aren't allowed on the forums, so why are price check threads where you have to "trust" the user has posted something truthful be allowed? You aren't required to trust that any particular user has posted correct prices, unlike a trust trade. The threads merely help people form reasonable expectations.
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25-Jun-2021 07:39:37 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2021 07:41:14 by Finance

Amascutian

Posts: 546 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

There is one thing I don't understand.

1. Revealing yourself as a pmod is against the rules because Liebster said :
they have no additional tools on the forums and because no one can see on the forums whether someone's a Pmod or not.[/silver]
And staff impersonation is against the rules.

2. Posting prices is not against the rules even though "it's impossible to verify prices and therefor cannot guarantee what is being said on the forums is true."

But posting fake prices/price manipulation is against the rules.

So which one is the right forum rule?

25-Jun-2021 08:38:44 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2021 08:56:48 by Amascutian

Nov

2007

Tranq

Forum Moderator Posts: 61,815 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Amascutian

Your first point is due to the fact that people tend to lend your weight to something a moderator writes than to something another knowledgeable former writes. So seeing as you can't positively ID a p-mod on the forums unless you personally know them in game, have access to the P-mod subsections of the forums so can see their private forums appear on their foruming profiles, or use an add on like grease monkey with the proper script that changes P-mods posts to a silver background (granted that was back when our whole post was green and not just the border it is now).

You had no way of knowing if the person was genuinely being helpful or if they were attempting to give you false information but you'd trust it cause they said they were a p-mod.

Back when the don't identify yourself as a p-mod on the forums was first written dual mods weren't a thing. You'd rarely see someone who was both a forum mod and a player mod. You could actually count them on one hand. Now that's far more commonplace. So just like normal players if an f-mod wasn't also a p-mod we couldn't see the p-mod private forums so even we couldn't confirm their claims.

So that's where that stemmed from it was meant that the forums be a place for the p-mods to unwind. Just like in game was a place for the f-mods to relax as people would tend to bombard the mods with queries and quite often it was the same queries over and over. Which was why Jagex added info about the p-mods to the town criers as an FAQ to cut down on the commonly asked questions.

Your second is what's fake really. It's really what is the buyer truly willing to pay for it. Take any item there is a suggested price associated what Jagex says it's worth. Now to a player it has x value in mind. Example dragonstone GE 7,106. I say it's worthless so 1gp. I need one at workbench buying for 100k each. All 3 prices are legit. GE's current value. My estimated worth. My in need now value.

When the day becomes the night and the sky becomes the sea, when the clock strikes heavy and there’s no time for tea; and in our darkest hour, before my final rhyme, she will come back home to Wonderland and turn back the hands of time.

25-Jun-2021 11:49:29

Amascutian

Posts: 546 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

By fake, I mean purchases that never happened not unrealistic offers. I have seen posts like these being removed.

Player moderators can't reveal themselves, because there is no evidence
Exposing scammers is not allowed because there is no evidence (I wouldn't allow it even if there was)
Giveaway threads are not allowed because they might be fake giveaways or scams

But it seems to me that this argument leads to a totally different conclusion when it comes to trade reports.

25-Jun-2021 13:23:34 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2021 13:44:24 by Amascutian

2_Tron

Posts: 22,959 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I agree, and I support, these things need to be removed because since Jagex/JMods have taken their hands off of the whole matter not supporting it it should be removed as a whole.
Players should live up to their own way of checking things themselves and these threads are only on The RuneScape Official Forums to manipulate.

29-Jun-2021 09:39:11

333333333

Posts: 36,620 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nah, you're not forced to follow the prices there! Or maybe wait until one day a new currency to buy items worth over max cash!

01-Jul-2021 08:32:42

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

No support to removing them - although I think it would be better if the threads were hosted by FMods, that way, people who have the OP don't force advertise their trading friends chats or discords onto people.

Keeping a space to trade and post approximate prices on the forums also keeps a somewhat official and fair place which is overseen by Jagex. If they were to be removed, then people would be forced to use external trading Discord servers, which are run by other players, and could force their own opinions/views on people. If someone disagrees with something, then the owners of that server could ban them.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

01-Jul-2021 10:07:02

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

333333333 said :
Nah, you're not forced to follow the prices there! Or maybe wait until one day a new currency to buy items worth over max cash! A new currency or special kind of GE to trade items over max cash is very much needed.... can only dream though.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

01-Jul-2021 10:07:54

2_Tron

Posts: 22,959 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :

No support to removing them - although I think

it would be better if the threads were hosted by FMods

, that way, people who have the OP don't force advertise their trading friends chats or discords onto people.

Keeping a space to trade and post approximate prices on the forums also keeps a somewhat official and fair place which is overseen by Jagex. If they were to be removed, then people would be forced to use external trading Discord servers, which are run by other players, and could force their own opinions/views on people.

If someone disagrees with something

,

then the owners

of that server

could ban them.

FMods are players too and being an owner doesn't automatically suggest that you are on the right side of things. FMods also do force their own opinions/views to other players but because they do have access to some extraordinary tools other players do not have, they have the advantage.
On top of that ... FMods also have an extra advantage by having access to some more exclusive knowledge players certainly do not have so how can you say that ordinary/regular players are always the culprit of things as how things happen?
Where's your proof?

01-Jul-2021 12:21:00