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Galahad Sir
Feb Member 2006

Galahad Sir

Posts: 4,594 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I play RuneScape mainly on my own to relax, and spend most of my time quietly working away on my skills. I take great pleasure in my achievements in RuneScape, but I have never felt the need to judge myself based on other people's achievements. It doesn't matter to me if anyone wants to buy spins or use the store, it's their game after all, they can play it however they want to (Within the rules OFC ). I guess that is why i have some trouble understanding the reaction of some players to the update, as another player getting an xp lamp really means nothing to me."
Really Sabre? That's the best you can come up with?
Because that argument applies equally to botters, to people who buy gold, to people who hack and phish. You don't care if people bot or buy gold, it doesn't affect your game? Even MMG said selling gold would ruin the game, and yet, your little argument there that you've been working so hard on for months, supports buying gold and botting just as much as it supports SoF bought spins.
Why did you even add "within the rules OFC" when the philosophy of your answer means it's not necessary for them to follow the rules, it doesn't affect you right?
If you cannot come up with an argument supporting SoF that doesn't also support botting and buying gold from sources other than Jagex, then you're just being a hypocrit. You're just telling lies to support SoF, because either you don't believe what you're saying, or you do, and you support botting and gold buying as well.
There are no two ways about it.
Obviously, the reason that after months of trying, you still can't come up with a reason why bought spins are ok but botting and gold buying isn't, is that bought spins are indeed just as bad as botting and gold buying. They are pay to win, they are using irl wealth to succeed at runescape, they are completely at odds with the core values of the game.
How do you live with yourself having to deliberately lie to your customers?

15-Sep-2012 09:45:44

Galahad Sir
Feb Member 2006

Galahad Sir

Posts: 4,594 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I play RuneScape mainly on my own to relax, and spend most of my time quietly working away on my skills. I take great pleasure in my achievements in RuneScape, but I have never felt the need to judge myself based on other people's achievements. It doesn't matter to me if anyone wants to BOT THEIR SKILLS AND WEALTH or BUY GOLD FROM A THIRD PARTY, it's their game after all, they can play it however they want to. I guess that is why i have some trouble understanding the reaction of some players to the update, as another player getting A 99 BY BOTTING OR BUYING A PARTY HAT FOR IRL CASH really means nothing to me."
Doesn't that argument make as much sense as your argument in support of bought spins?
Both arguments are patently ridiculous.

15-Sep-2012 09:48:04

blackphat ro
Sep Member 2023

blackphat ro

Posts: 962 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Again Mod Sabre,
Firstly, thankyou for responding and understanding my concerns. It can be frustrating sometimes when you feel like you're talking to a wall, and you've really helped to relieve some tension.
I'd like to clarify some points:
"MMG mentioned in this thread that our teams were looking for ways to make SoF more subtle and less in-your-face".
I'm glad about this, but am concerned that the overt advertising will simply shift to another part of in-game content. Adding a tab on the noticeboard could be a subtle way to keep the content in-game without overtly 'advertising' to the player. Alternatively, purchases from the solomon's store highlight the icon you need to click on to view these enhancements. A glowing icon for the SOF spins would be another great way to avoid the "in-your-face" behaviour.
"Holiday items are just that - available for a limited amount of time during that particular holiday event. Otherwise they would just be regular items.
I do understand that holiday items should be removed or reduced over time, as long as the timeframe is reasonable. One of my concerns here is that the artists' efforts are not appreciated. Reusing content is always gold, so perhaps these could be introduced in future years in different styles, for example.
"XP rewards and coins have been balanced by our teams as per player request... players were not able to buy 20-30 xp lamps, the amulet, or coins, they were buying spins on the wheel and had a chance to win those items"
The rate of lamps received is about 1/3 based on personal experience and illustrated by numerous youtube videos. While this is a chance, the long-term probability implies that players will receive between 20-30 lamps of choice per 75 spins (possibly with bonus spins), which is ~150k/hour in a skill of choice. If this rate is not the intent, it may need to be adjusted. Alternatively, I would be much happier to see pendants rather than lamps as suggested by others.
Thx Again :)

15-Sep-2012 09:58:26

blackphat ro
Sep Member 2023

blackphat ro

Posts: 962 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Shogo did raise a good point regarding the amulet. If a player was lucky to obtain an amulet by purchasing 75 spins, then regular players never had a chance, and players were essentially buying spins to earn runescape coins. Either the release of the amulet was poorly conceived, or Jagex released it with the intent of players paying to earn RS coins, despite being based on chance. In actuality, this is based on statistical probability. On average, a certain amount of money paid for an approximate amount of spins, which allowed players to obtain the amulet and 5m coins.
On the flipside, millions being pumped into the RS economy is irrelevant because it is affecting all players, and item prices rise and fall based on supply and demand. If more players have more money to pay for items, the demand has risen, but the supply of items remains the same, meaning that the price will rise accordingly. The main concern should be that individual players with more money to spend IRL are gaining an unfair advantage in the game.
I would be happy to spend money on emotes or cosmetic items in the game, provided that the game is fair for all players. I forget which Jagex employee stated that they are looking at preserving the long-term (5-10 year) future of the game. However, I can't commit to making a purchase for a cosmetic item that I won't wear in 3 months, because of my concerns with updates that a large number of players are fighting against.
I believe that many players have an opposing view to Jagex because they are backward-looking (including myself). We don't get back-paid spins for quests we completed years ago, and we worked hard to achieve skills without help from SOF XP lamps. We felt good about it by seeing our status on the high scores. While this does not apply to all players, I think it's fair to say that many players are upset because the visible status for our efforts appears to be slowly dissipating.

15-Sep-2012 10:23:13

Sagzee
Jan Member 2006

Sagzee

Posts: 48,694 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Once again, players were not able to buy 20-30 xp lamps, the amulet, or coins, they were buying spins on the wheel and had a chance to win those items. I know from the drop rates that your estimates are slightly off there in terms of what could be won from 75 spins. It could happen (probability being what it is), but you would be an awfully lucky young man."
Goin to back to an earlier post of mine on this thread, I'll reiterate again with confidence that I can net at least 1 full inventory of lamps or a near full inventory from a pack of say 75 spins.
If you want, I could buy a pack now and film the results, or even just create a thread detailing the rewards of each spin?
EDIT: In fact, maybe a post on here would be good enough. I had planned to buy spins today anyways.

15-Sep-2012 11:08:40 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2012 11:10:34 by Sagzee

Sagzee
Jan Member 2006

Sagzee

Posts: 48,694 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Okily dokily, results of recent 75 spins:
1 - 1k coins
2 - 1k coins
3 - Medium Lamp
4 - 2 uncut rubies
5 - 1k coins
6 - Small Lamp (Strength)
7 - Small Lamp
8 - 1k coins
9 - Double spin ticket
10 - Small Lamp
11 - Medium Lamp (Herblore)
12 - Small Lamp
13 - Small Lamp
14 - Medium Lamp (Fletching)
15 - Small Lamp
16 - 400 steel arrows (converted cash: 10,800)
17 - Small Lamp (Firemaking)
18 - 1k coins
19 - 500k coins
20 - Rune Scimitar (converted cash: 15,360)
21 - Small Lamp
22 - Small Lamp
23 - Double spin ticket
24 - 5k coins
25 - Medium Lamp
26 - 20 seaweed
27 - 40 law runes
28 - 30 cannonballs
29 - Small Lamp
30 - Medium Lamp (Agility)
31 - 50k coins
32 - Small Lamp (Ranged)
33 - Pendant of Magic (converted cash: 15,000)
34 - 1k coins
35 - Pendant of Magic (converted cash: 15,000)
36 - Small Lamp
37 - Small Lamp
38 - 1k coins
39 - 1k coins
40 - 1k coins
41 - 1k coins
42 - Small Lamp
43 - Pendant of Magic (converted cash: 15,000)
44 - Small Lamp
45 - 5k coins
46 - Small Lamp (Woodcutting)
47 - Prized Pendant of Mining
48 - 10 uncooked pizza (converted cash: 500)
49 - 1k coins
50 - Small Lamp
51 - Small Lamp
52 - Double spin ticket
53 - Small Lamp
54 - 15 yew logs
55 - Medium Lamp
56 - 20 big bones
57 - 10 uncooked pizza (converted cash: 500)
58 - Medium Lamp
59 - 1k coins
60 - Small Lamp
61 - 4 uncut emeralds
62 - Medium Lamp
63 - 20 gold ore
64 - Pendant of Dungeoneering
65 - Small Lamp (Ranged)
66 - Small Lamp (Prayer)
67 - Small Lamp
68 - 50k coins
69 - Pendant of Magic (converted cash: 15,000)
70 - 1k coins
71 - 50k coins
72 - Small Lamp (Constitution)
73 - Medium Lamp
74 - Small Lamp
75 - 10 uncooked apple pie (converted cash: 500)
bonus spins:
76 - Small Lamp (Fishing)
77 - 1k coins
78 - 1k coins
79 - Adamant Hatchet (converted cash: 768)
80 - 200k coins
81 - 15 yew logs
82 - 1k coins

15-Sep-2012 12:50:42

Sagzee
Jan Member 2006

Sagzee

Posts: 48,694 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So from those 75 spins, I managed to get:
26 Small Lamps
9 Medium Lamps
(A little over an inventory load of lamps there)
Exp total from those lamps:
233,889 on Hunter from the Small/Med Lamps that I could put on any skill I wished.
8603 Strength exp.
17,205 Herblore exp.
17,204 Fletching exp.
8603 Firemaking exp.
16,130 Agility exp.
17,205 Ranged exp.
8602 Woodcutting exp.
8602 Prayer exp.
8603 Constitution exp.
8602 Fishing exp.
GRAND TOTAL EXP: 353,248.
Cash (from the cashpile rewards and those items I converted, excluding those I didn't convert): 963,928 gp.

15-Sep-2012 12:50:50 - Last edited on 15-Sep-2012 13:01:34 by Sagzee

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