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DormamMagus
May Member 2019

DormamMagus

Posts: 3,718 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said :
PoKs = GM's of their cities.

I don't have a dog in this fight. So I'll say my piece and let you all get back to your arguments but this is wrong and doesn't reflect the way that PoK's are run, have been run, nor should be run.

PoK leaders are gm's for their roleplays and often that means setting the scene for events within cities, kingdoms, or whatever area they oversee. Just as the leaders of the Kinshra set the scene of the fortress, the leaders of the tower set the scene for the tower, and leaders for other groups set up the scene of their own frequently used areas.

Most people recognize those large GM'd descriptions due to the nature of our public roleplay community with overlapping and interacting groups. What PoKs have not been, are not, and cannot be are gatekeepers for who can roleplay in their areas and how they do so.

It's not something that every POK gets right all the time but if a kingdom is going to be public it means interacting with those who want to interact with it. Groups don't approach kingdoms for permission to use the land. Some groups do for the sake of plot. I did it when the Zamorakians invaded West Ardougne but I did it because I chose to do it that way not because the POK was owed it.

In short, a reminder for all of our community:
POK's are not ooc gate keepers for their land.
Outside groups don't "come to" POK's for permission to exist.
Public rp means something and it means interacting with groups that have different motives than you do. That goes for POK's and groups. Historically when POK's have decided to act in a different way they've been something else to reflect that.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I can count on one hand the number of times I've cared who controls what in the years I've been on 42. However, certain things are bad for our community and the idea that POK leaders have absolute ooc authority is one of those.

30-Nov-2018 22:17:52

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Is it metagaming to make a character to join a group led by your friend OOCly, because you think it'll be fun? By definition of the word, yes. And that is often not a bad thing.

(Sorry, trying to directly quote that is messy, think the forums are bugging for me.)

No, it's not metagaming to make a character join a group lead by your friend. However, it's incredibly and undeniably metagaming to join a group not because you're friends with a person, but because you're not friends with the other side. It's incredibly and undeniably metagaming to funnel otherwise-unrelated characters in to a group to artificially bolster its threat value. It's incredibly and undeniably metagaming to either poof yourself up a "counter" to what the opposite side is bringing to the table regardless of the actual position or intention of said group. It's incredibly and undeniably metagaming when the general circle that's joining said group, has already made a very bold OOC statement that they are joining said group because they do not want the other side to "own or touch anything". I'm not allowed to post the screenshots I've collected on the forums, because doing so and tying them to people would be considered naming and shaming. But I've delivered them where they need to go, and if this is still the outcome, then that's a sign on what's going on behind the curtain. The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

30-Nov-2018 22:25:28

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
DormamMagus said :
In short, a reminder for all of our community:
POK's are not ooc gate keepers for their land.
Outside groups don't "come to" POK's for permission to exist.
Public rp means something and it means interacting with groups that have different motives than you do. That goes for POK's and groups. Historically when POK's have decided to act in a different way they've been something else to reflect that.

For permission to exist, no. By no means am I sitting here saying "You guys have to come to me to ask to exist in my kingdom!" I didn't talk with Sonicteej at all about him being "allowed" to run an RP out of Rimmington. (I did, however, ask if he'd like to be listed on the thread, and had him proofread a little blurb I put underneath to describe the group.) If you wanted to make a gambling ring just inside the gates, there is nothing I can do or say about it, regardless if I enjoy it or not, OOC. IC, that's another matter. However..

When you as a group are coming with the intent to attack, take over, and eventually replace another group, especially a PoK, you waive that right to exist without permission. At the very least, you waive the right to continue affecting the kingdom, without permission. If I were to attack the Kinshra, I'd have to play by their rules. I'd have to cooperate with them and do things that they approved of, otherwise I get turned away. We've already seen them turn away Pyro as he tries to get involved (Not talking about the forum-announced powerplaying), because what he brought just wasn't what they were interested in. Similarly, here, what's being brought to me, with the intent of not only attacking and taking Rimmington, but ultimately Asgarnia, is not something that I believe is right or involving for my PoK. As I've been saying in this thread, it's coming across as deeply rooted in metagame, and bordering on godmodding.

(Cont) The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

30-Nov-2018 22:32:18

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(The "godmodding" assertion is largely based on one person's claim that I should expect, and be willing to accept, fire surges being lobbed "as if they're nothing", which implies that there is at least one mage there with 95+ magic and a wealth of runes that can then autocast fire surges.)

I've never told a group "you don't have a right to exist." Despite the claims being made, I've never used the word "blacklist", or enforced anything similar to it. With the Kinshra, I informed them that we aren't interested in the RP they'd bring to the table, or the attitudes their people carry OOC. I haven't told them "we don't recognize you", I haven't moved over the land they possess or done anything hostile in regards to them. I've asked that we peacefully just don't interact with each other. They exist in Asgarnia, and I make no claims that they don't. They as a group can and will continue to exist with or without the involvement of my PoK.

Camp Donblas, on the other hand, is a group that is quite apparently based entirely on attacking and usurping Asgarnia, first with Jacob Delvar at the helm, and then just changing over to Jeoffrey Halvorsson. This group's entire reason for existing is to attack. If what they're coming to me with isn't in the interest of roleplay, but instead in the interest of just taking over, and the people coming together under that group have all expressed their own individual OOC interest in removing me or my people, then I still retain the ability to turn them away. However, as I said in my initial three posts, I'm waiting on Varis to DM me so we can talk this out. If cooperation isn't in their interest, or we can't come to some kind of agreement on what's happening, then I'll be turning them away. Because they are coming to me, asking to directly and largely affect what my PoK is doing. The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

30-Nov-2018 22:32:23 - Last edited on 30-Nov-2018 22:38:53 by RiDaku

Khaji
Mar Member 2012

Khaji

Posts: 1,256 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said :
DormamMagus said :
In short, a reminder for all of our community:
POK's are not ooc gate keepers for their land.
Outside groups don't "come to" POK's for permission to exist.
Public rp means something and it means interacting with groups that have different motives than you do. That goes for POK's and groups. Historically when POK's have decided to act in a different way they've been something else to reflect that.

For permission to exist, no. By no means am I sitting here saying "You guys have to come to me to ask to exist in my kingdom!" I didn't talk with Sonicteej at all about him being "allowed" to run an RP out of Rimmington. (I did, however, ask if he'd like to be listed on the thread, and had him proofread a little blurb I put underneath to describe the group.) If you wanted to make a gambling ring just inside the gates, there is nothing I can do or say about it, regardless if I enjoy it or not, OOC. IC, that's another matter. However..

When you as a group are coming with the intent to attack, take over, and eventually replace another group, especially a PoK, you waive that right to exist without permission. At the very least, you waive the right to continue affecting the kingdom, without permission.



Nobody waives their right to exist regardless if they come to attack to take over or not. Being a part of public rp means accepting certain truths. The world of public rp is an organic and dynamic place. a kingdom can be attacked and taken or defended and held. Picking and choosing who gets to attack or attempt to take over shouldn't be a thing in public rp. There are a lot of frustrating things that happen in public rp, however the dangers and unpredictability in events is part of what makes public rp what it is. If you want to control peoples rights to exist and influence your group then private rp is the place for that.

30-Nov-2018 22:48:25 - Last edited on 30-Nov-2018 22:49:31 by Khaji

Ashtorette
Aug Member 2018

Ashtorette

Posts: 28 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's not that I don't like rebellions or antagonists, it's that many people in that group have been harassing and attempting to dox people out of character. I'm pretty quiet. I just want to roleplay, but you're forgetting that I see this going on. All the time, too.

When the Duchess was setting up the event, her first ever, the only thing people wanted to do was kill her. I sat there, in the WK chat, because, I play a temple knight. One who would probably want to depose the Duchess as well. And I love both characters I play equally, but here's the thing; They are antagonists to each other.

I sat in the clan chat minutes before the event, while everyone- everyone there made jokes about the Red Wedding, then complained about the heavy security presence. Vekon stood outside the door asking if he could roll dice to sneak a weapon inside, which... I like? I like cloak and dagger stuff. That isn't the problem. It's never been the problem.

The issue everyone is skirting around right now is that the players involved are all hateful and mean, and I actually feel bad for having lost some of them, because their characters are languishing now, in Encompass. That's sad. I'm sad, for that, and I really wish it could be different.

30-Nov-2018 23:19:23

Ashtorette
Aug Member 2018

Ashtorette

Posts: 28 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And therein lies another complaint of mine. If this was entirely in-character, where's the hate for Ashley Gremoire? I'm actually a little disappointed I don't hear negative propaganda about her. I was kind of looking forward to it, and that's just further evidence that this has nothing to do with RP, at all.

30-Nov-2018 23:21:42

Vekon

Vekon

Posts: 2,037 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ashtorette said :
Vekon stood outside the door asking if he could roll dice to sneak a weapon inside,

I was making d&d jokes and messing with Ridaku. Wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriously. I don't have any interest in harming your character. In fact, her death would prevent me from interacting with her in Sarim.
KANDAR VICTA

Axel Vekon, the Eternal Emperor, the Archmage, the Lichslayer, of the Holy Kandarin Empire.

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HouseVekon

01-Dec-2018 00:43:58

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